Questions Regarding Recruiting and Scholarship Offers

[JavaMan]

Occasionally over recent years I have become dismayed by the antics and/or behaviors displayed on social media by a few of our recruiting targets. When I say dismayed, I’m referring to what I perceive as the likelihood of their “fitting in” with the UConn WBB culture.

I’m drawing perceptions based solely on social media activity, and I’m not alleging that anything is right, wrong, good, bad, or indifferent; these are all relative terms anyway. Let’s face it, these girls-becoming-women are mostly celebrated overachievers, and they didn’t become overachievers by accident. Still, early-life conditioning, maturity, immaturity, and peer pressures (positive and negative) can influence for sure.

While social media can reveal a great deal about individuals who partake, I am of the belief that baby-boomers and older generally perceive the folks on the other end of their social media communications as “they,” while millennials and younger generally perceive those folks as “we.” This can account for a big difference in how, what, and how often we partake.

So if Geno ever was to have second thoughts, what are his options?

1. If Geno loses interest in and decides to end the recruitment of a player, is he required (NCAA) to inform that player of his intent to end his recruitment or interest?

2. Once a scholarship offer has been made to a recruit, is Geno permitted to withdraw that offer for any reason, and what and how (if any) procedures must be followed? (I’m just referring to standing offers, not already accepted scholarship offers)

3. And what about verbals? Of course the recruits themselves can back out of a verbal, but can Geno back out of an “accepted” verbal? Has he ever? I’m not aware of any.

And just for good measure, does anyone else feel as I do pertaining to the likelihood of social media activity in any way foretelling a likely or unlikely “fitting in” with the UConn WBB culture.

Hoping some of you “in the know” can shed a little light on the subject for we that are ignorant on such matters.

​

 

[UcMiami]

Interesting post on a few levels Java.
On social media ... I think it is really difficult to read anything into 98% of the 'normal' folks that are very active on social media about their game, their quality as teammates on the court or off, or their in-person qualities. It is by its very nature a 'me' kind of medium so anyone who is active is likely to come across frequently as a 'me' kind of person. So I doubt much if any evaluation of recruits is based on their on-line activity.

On your Questions -
1. I think it is very apparent when any coach loses interest in a recruit for the recruit and their family - the contacts and letters dry up. I doubt the coaches tend to actually inform the recruits unless they get asked specifically by the recruit/family. They don't really want to say 'we like you well enough but your family is a horror and ...' or 'we thought you would fit, but then we saw you do _____ and that turned us off'. It isn't necessary and their decision is obvious so why worry at it and get into unpleasantness. The exception might be when they get a commitment from another player that fills up their roster or their desired class size, and they call to say 'we really like you, but ____ just committed and we really no longer have the room for you, but good luck.
2. Scholarship offers are as good as the paper ... - no reason has to be given, and an 'offer' does not have any validity in the eyes of the NCAA, it is an 'unofficial action' by the coach as a show of interest.
3. Verbals have the same standing as 'offers' on both parties - none. I can't remember any Uconn recruit whose verbal was later rejected but until the contract is signed by both parties it doesn't exist in any legal sense.

#2 and #3 do have some 'integrity' issues for coaches to a lesser degree than signing too many recruits and 'forcing' a player already on the team to leave, but in the same kind of way. When UNC got the DD class, Sylvia had to renege on a verbal from another player for example, and that didn't sit too well with some. But players who are rejected after a verbal or an offer, aren't likely to make a big fuss about it and draw more attention to their 'rejection', just like you don't see a lot of people posting on social media about all the rejections they get in a job search (at least until they land a dream job!)

 

[Kibitzer]

"Verbals" are not worth more than the paper they weren't written on.

Coaches can withdraw offers easily before LOI signing; after that, consult an expert.

 

[Geew1992]

Also, just because the athlete receives a scholarship one year, doesn't mean they "have" to get it the next. The scholarship is renew each year.

 

[UcMiami]

Also, just because the athlete receives a scholarship one year, doesn't mean they "have" to get it the next. The scholarship is renew each year.

That is changing at a number of schools where they are guaranteeing the scholarships for four years (though not necessarily as a athlete scholarship.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Interesting post on a few levels Java.
On social media ... I think it is really difficult to read anything into 98% of the 'normal' folks that are very active on social media about their game, their quality as teammates on the court or off, or their in-person qualities. It is by its very nature a 'me' kind of medium so anyone who is active is likely to come across frequently as a 'me' kind of person. So I doubt much if any evaluation of recruits is based on their on-line activity.

On your Questions -
1. I think it is very apparent when any coach loses interest in a recruit for the recruit and their family - the contacts and letters dry up. I doubt the coaches tend to actually inform the recruits unless they get asked specifically by the recruit/family. They don't really want to say 'we like you well enough but your family is a horror and ...' or 'we thought you would fit, but then we saw you do _____ and that turned us off'. It isn't necessary and their decision is obvious so why worry at it and get into unpleasantness. The exception might be when they get a commitment from another player that fills up their roster or their desired class size, and they call to say 'we really like you, but ____ just committed and we really no longer have the room for you, but good luck.
2. Scholarship offers are as good as the paper ... - no reason has to be given, and an 'offer' does not have any validity in the eyes of the NCAA, it is an 'unofficial action' by the coach as a show of interest.
3. Verbals have the same standing as 'offers' on both parties - none. I can't remember any Uconn recruit whose verbal was later rejected but until the contract is signed by both parties it doesn't exist in any legal sense.

#2 and #3 do have some 'integrity' issues for coaches to a lesser degree than signing too many recruits and 'forcing' a player already on the team to leave, but in the same kind of way. When UNC got the DD class, Sylvia had to renege on a verbal from another player for example, and that didn't sit too well with some. But players who are rejected after a verbal or an offer, aren't likely to make a big fuss about it and draw more attention to their 'rejection', just like you don't see a lot of people posting on social media about all the rejections they get in a job search (at least until they land a dream job!)

An OFFER is just that--an offer--no requirement other than --Courtesy, decency (bet big buck Geno does it) An agreement ---can be binding and should be removed by writing. To
renege an offer is a hard decision--what would Geno have done if Stew accepted and he had no slots left??

 

[BroadwayVa]

I see pros' and Cons for the year scholarship ---Can't think of a year where this was an issue at UCWBB--
Coaches need some means to "lose" players for a variety of reasons. Geno tends to hold kids for 4 years regardless of productivity . I can think of some in a class that could have been asked to move elsewhere (just a guess). But from the Scholarship kids side, life is more difficult with uncertainty and seems unfair..

 

[CocoHusky]

Q: If Geno loses interest in and decides to end the recruitment of a player, is he required (NCAA) to inform that player of his intent to end his recruitment or interest?
A: No, Geno is not required by the NCAA to inform the player that UCONN is no longer interested.
The staff can also NOT comment on what players they are recruiting and I hope & believe that the right phone calls are made behind the scenes directly to the recruit but.... there have been a few times when I have read via the Horde that UCONN is no longer recruiting a player- Taylor Rooks & Chantal Horvath are two examples. When I read this via the Horde I cringe and hope that is not the first time the recruit or their parents is becoming aware.

Q: Once a scholarship offer has been made to a recruit, is Geno permitted to withdraw that offer for any reason, and what and how (if any) procedures must be followed? (I’m just referring to standing offers, not already accepted scholarship offers).
Yes, a scholarship offer can be with drawn at anytime from the time of the offer until the player sets foot on campus. Accepted scholarships are renewable on an annual basis and can be withdrawn (not renewed).

Q: And what about verbals? Of course the recruits themselves can back out of a verbal, but can Geno back out of an “accepted” verbal? Has he ever? I’m not aware of any.
Geno can back out of an accepted offer, don't think he ever has, can't think of any other coach who has ever backed out of an accepted offer either.

 

[Nuyoika]

Occasionally over recent years I have become dismayed by the antics and/or behaviors displayed on social media by a few of our recruiting targets. When I say dismayed, I’m referring to what I perceive as the likelihood of their “fitting in” with the UConn WBB culture.

I’m drawing perceptions based solely on social media activity, and I’m not alleging that anything is right, wrong, good, bad, or indifferent; these are all relative terms anyway. Let’s face it, these girls-becoming-women are mostly celebrated overachievers, and they didn’t become overachievers by accident. Still, early-life conditioning, maturity, immaturity, and peer pressures (positive and negative) can influence for sure.

While social media can reveal a great deal about individuals who partake, I am of the belief that baby-boomers and older generally perceive the folks on the other end of their social media communications as “they,” while millennials and younger generally perceive those folks as “we.” This can account for a big difference in how, what, and how often we partake.

So if Geno ever was to have second thoughts, what are his options?

1. If Geno loses interest in and decides to end the recruitment of a player, is he required (NCAA) to inform that player of his intent to end his recruitment or interest?

2. Once a scholarship offer has been made to a recruit, is Geno permitted to withdraw that offer for any reason, and what and how (if any) procedures must be followed? (I’m just referring to standing offers, not already accepted scholarship offers)

3. And what about verbals? Of course the recruits themselves can back out of a verbal, but can Geno back out of an “accepted” verbal? Has he ever? I’m not aware of any.

And just for good measure, does anyone else feel as I do pertaining to the likelihood of social media activity in any way foretelling a likely or unlikely “fitting in” with the UConn WBB culture.

Hoping some of you “in the know” can shed a little light on the subject for we that are ignorant on such matters.

​

Just read of situation like this happening at South Carolina... it will likely happen other places as top schools begin to have full rosters. From Cockytalk: "Evina Westbrook still plans to take her official visit to South Carolina in two weeks. She's coming off of her visit to Notre Dame and will visit Maryland this coming weekend. Not sure what this says about our scholarship situation. If there's a spot left, it's hers. Apparently once Williams committed all offers to 2017 post players were rescinded."

South Carolina seems to be full so maybe there is something people on the outside looking in are missing.

It could be the nature of the scholarships. I thought you could have 15 athletic scholarship players on the roster but you could have up to 18 players total on the team? Or you could have some athletic and some academic but the roster itself could not exceed 18. I cannot seem to find this info anywhere. However I recall discussing this last year with someone when were talking about Syracuse's roster.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Just read of situation like this happening at South Carolina... it will likely happen other places as top schools begin to have full rosters. From Cockytalk: "Evina Westbrook still plans to take her official visit to South Carolina in two weeks. She's coming off of her visit to Notre Dame and will visit Maryland this coming weekend. Not sure what this says about our scholarship situation. If there's a spot left, it's hers. Apparently once Williams committed all offers to 2017 post players were rescinded."

South Carolina seems to be full so maybe there is something people on the outside looking in are missing.

It could be the nature of the scholarships. I thought you could have 15 athletic scholarship players on the roster but you could have up to 18 players total on the team? Or you could have some athletic and some academic but the roster itself could not exceed 18. I cannot seem to find this info anywhere. However I recall discussing this last year with someone when were talking about Syracuse's roster.

There is no limit to how many players can be on a roster. Army's men's team, for example, has rostered about 30 players in the past. However many leagues limit the size of a travel roster for league games. You are correct that the maximum number of scholarship athletes on a roster is 15. A recruited athlete who is receiving need-based or certain academic aid would still count against the limit of 15.

 

[CocoHusky]

There is no limit to how many players can be on a roster. Army's men's team, for example, has rostered about 30 players in the past. However many leagues limit the size of a travel roster for league games. You are correct that the maximum number of scholarship athletes on a roster is 15. A recruited athlete who is receiving need-based or certain academic aid would still count against the limit of 15.

In the WCBB domain another example is Syracuse with a roster of 17 players this year which is actually down from a year ago when the carrier a roster of 19 including into the National Championship game.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Q: And what about verbals? Of course the recruits themselves can back out of a verbal, but can Geno back out of an “accepted” verbal? Has he ever? I’m not aware of any.
Geno can back out of an accepted offer, don't think he ever has, can't think of any other coach who has ever backed out of an accepted offer either.

There have been many instances where a coach has rescinded an accepted offer, usually either due to disciplinary issues with the player or because a new coach replaced the one who made the offer. In fact, a number of players who already had a signed legally-binding letter of intent have been run off by a new coach, who wanted to bring in a new player but had no scholarships. If the player won't voluntarily agree to go elsewhere - and there are often no good alternatives at that point - then there are sometimes threats to ostracize or humiliate the player. For example, see the stories on Kurt Budke, R.I.P., when he took over the Oklahoma State job.

 

[CocoHusky]

There have been many instances where a coach has rescinded an accepted offer, usually either due to disciplinary issues with the player or because a new coach replaced the one who made the offer. In fact, a number of players who already had a signed legally-binding letter of intent have been run off by a new coach, who wanted to bring in a new player but had no scholarships. If the player won't voluntarily agree to go elsewhere - and there are often no good alternatives at that point - then there are sometimes threats to ostracize or humiliate the player. For example, see the stories on Kurt Budke, R.I.P., when he took over the Oklahoma State job.

I will certainly read about Kurt Budke but I was answering from a WCBB perspective. It is not my understanding that a coaching change releases the University from a signed letter of intent-quite the opposite. In the instance of a coaching change the Athlete can request to be release from LOI and the University may choose to release the athlete. Kelsey Plum at Washington is one of the more visible WCBB players that fell into this situation. It could be that the rule is different than the actually practice because the NCAA is not the most consistent organization out there. My understanding is that an incoming coach inherits the scholarship obligations for that university for at lease 1 year until the scholars come up for renewal.

 

[stamfordhusky]

I will certainly read about Kurt Budke but I was answering from a WCBB perspective. It is not my understanding that a coaching change releases the University from a signed letter of intent-quite the opposite. In the instance of a coaching change the Athlete can request to be release from LOI and the University may choose to release the athlete. Kelsey Plum at Washington is one of the more visible WCBB players that fell into this situation. It could be that the rule is different than the actually practice because the NCAA is not the most consistent organization out there. My understanding is that an incoming coach inherits the scholarship obligations for that university for at lease 1 year until the scholars come up for renewal.

That is correct - which is why unethical coaches have chosen to resort to various means to run the player off. Methods include threatening to humiliate the incoming player or ostracize her or make her practice on her own or not let her practice with the team at all. Etc. Many players will voluntarily leave before they even start rather than have to put up with the threatened abuse and a generally unhappy experience.

 

[BobbyJ]

Q: If Geno loses interest in and decides to end the recruitment of a player, is he required (NCAA) to inform that player of his intent to end his recruitment or interest?


Q: And what about verbals? Of course the recruits themselves can back out of a verbal, but can Geno back out of an “accepted” verbal? Has he ever? I’m not aware of any.
Geno can back out of an accepted offer, don't think he ever has, can't think of any other coach who has ever backed out of an accepted offer either.

I agree on this. I don't believe it happens that often in BB because of the limited number of players being recruited to fill openings. However, it happens regularly in football. Because of the large amount of recruits every year coaches will actually prioritize the offers as committable and non committable. In situations where the talent level of recruits at a specific position is really close the coaches may tell the 5 kids that we're taking the first 3 that committ. Even in WBB recruiting is nasty business.

 

[BobbyJ]

That is correct - which is why unethical coaches have chosen to resort to various means to run the player off. Methods include threatening to humiliate the incoming player or ostracize her or make her practice on her own or not let her practice with the team at all. Etc. Many players will voluntarily leave before they even start rather than have to put up with the threatened abuse and a generally unhappy experience.

Good point about the methods used. Another very popular one is to meet with the player/players in question and simply tell them that you don't see any possibility of them getting to play for you but they're welcome to sit for a year until you don't renew their scholarship.