Our Dear Friends at UTenn Go Down Again -- to Ole Miss

[Zorro]

Well, maybe they'll be the 16 seed in UConn's bracket.

​

'Tis a confrontation devoutly to be wished! Would love to see DD try to score on Gabby!

 

[eebmg]

'Tis a confrontation devoutly to be wished! Would love to see DD try to score on Gabby!

Why waste Gabby? She clanks every shot, open or not, assuming she hasnt bounced it off her sneaker going 1 on 4. The beauty of DD is she makes just enough to convince herself and others she should take every shot.

 

[UcMiami]

Why waste Gabby? She clanks every shot, open or not, assuming she hasnt bounced it off her sneaker going 1 on 4. The beauty of DD is she makes just enough to convince herself and others she should take every shot.

Because five minutes of Gabby, and she will stop trying at all for the rest of the game and then you are playing 5 on 4.

 

[eebmg]

Because five minutes of Gabby, and she will stop trying at all for the rest of the game and then you are playing 5 on 4.

One concern is that since DD is so reckless, I could see the potential of early foul trouble on Gabby. Better to let her self-destruct
with Gabby smiling at a safe distance. She is not a Kelsey Mitchell who can be a real threat even when she is going rogue.

 

[EricLA]

I would like to say something positive about Holly. For starters, Pat never ran much offense either. For all the accolades of her being a "great coach", I think it's more she was a great winner and had great talent. Holly picked right up where Pat left off - no offense, crash the boards for putbacks, play intense defense.

Now for the compliment. I HAVE seen Tennessee run more offense. I have seen them set up in the half court and pass the ball a few times around the perimeter, and even probe the defense. That's improvement. I have seen them actually try to feed the post. The problem is either they seem to get bored or distracted, and then it turns into one player dribbling around and jacking up a shot. And that's not different from what almost every other team out there does. Most WCBB teams do NOT run offense. Maybe 10% run real offense and 1% run it well.

 

[sarals24]

I think even with 12+ losses, Tennessee gets in. They have a fan base who will travel, and they are still a draw on the road and on TV. The NCAA just wants to make any money they can on the tournament, and leaving out on of the biggest fan bases won't help with that.

 

[hussybulldog]

With 2 #1 players coming out of high school, still managed to a weak team, it can't be just players' fault. They did play deep into NCAA last season, wonder what have switched off. Wonder what DD's father has been tweeting about....

 

[Dillon77]

Well, I'll guess we'll see if the Vols can up for a "big game" at home this Monday evening, Jan. 16th, at 7 p.m. on ESPN2, when the Fighting Irish come into Knoxville. The Irish have been on the road for the better part of a month and hopefully that has toughened them up for what will initially be a boisterous crowd.

I'm writing this in between meetings, but I think the last time we had an ESPN game there, Maddie Cable and Michaela Mabrey kind of had their coming-out parties. We'll see...

 

[vtcwbuff]

Margo is at her wits' end. I cannot blame her.

I don't think she had far to go.

 

[BigBird]

Well, I'll guess we'll see if the Vols can up for a "big game" at home this Monday evening, Jan. 16th, at 7 p.m. on ESPN2, when the Fighting Irish come into Knoxville. The Irish have been on the road for the better part of a month and hopefully that has toughened them up for what will initially be a boisterous crowd.

I'm writing this in between meetings, but I think the last time we had an ESPN game there, Maddie Cable and Michaela Mabrey kind of had their coming-out parties. We'll see...

I can't believe I'm writing this, but: GO IRISH! I may not like them, but I respect their legitimate achievements. Those pouting, orange-clad shot flingers, not so much.

 

[noirwestern]

I would like to say something positive about Holly. For starters, Pat never ran much offense either. For all the accolades of her being a "great coach", I think it's more she was a great winner and had great talent. Holly picked right up where Pat left off - no offense, crash the boards for putbacks, play intense defense.

Now for the compliment. I HAVE seen Tennessee run more offense. I have seen them set up in the half court and pass the ball a few times around the perimeter, and even probe the defense. That's improvement. I have seen them actually try to feed the post. The problem is either they seem to get bored or distracted, and then it turns into one player dribbling around and jacking up a shot. And that's not different from what almost every other team out there does. Most WCBB teams do NOT run offense. Maybe 10% run real offense and 1% run it well.

I grew up in the south years and years before there was such a thing as espn but still managed to see Tennessee on television frequently. The thing that I remember more than anything else is that they played everyone, large, medium sized schools and small. Especially small. And ran up the score on all of them long before much, if any thought was given to actually recruiting the best local players to be had, much less going out of state for them. I think the first five or six years of her amassing the win total she wound up with should only count for about half as much as it does since the competition often did little more than suit up and take their beatings from the, "juggernaut".

 

[Magy Cannon]

Holly Warlick is a pitiful excuse for a D1 college basketball coach. The TN AD never should have hired her. Whomever wrote that she won't resign because of giving up her big salary is correct.

 

[Vowelguy]

With 2 #1 players coming out of high school, still managed to a weak team, it can't be just players' fault. They did play deep into NCAA last season, wonder what have switched off. .

To be clear TN has many problems, but certainly losing their PG to injury and having no recruits did not help.

That said, they did still beat Stanford.

 

[JoePgh]

I would like to say something positive about Holly. For starters, Pat never ran much offense either. For all the accolades of her being a "great coach", I think it's more she was a great winner and had great talent. Holly picked right up where Pat left off - no offense, crash the boards for putbacks, play intense defense.

I think that Pat WAS a great coach, even if she was not a great student of the X's and O's of offensive basketball. In every respect except that one (and yes, that is a big one), in her prime she was Geno's peer. She could recruit like Geno, she could get players to play to the utmost of their physical ability even if they did not have those habits coming out of high school, she would not settle for excuses or less than 100% effort in practice, and she could get players with large talents and individual egos to play for the success of the team.

If Pat had the Tennessee rosters of the last few years, they would not have lost half as many games as they did -- even if they never learned to run a sophisticated offense.

 

[Rocket009]

With 2 #1 players coming out of high school, still managed to a weak team, it can't be just players' fault. They did play deep into NCAA last season, wonder what have switched off. Wonder what DD's father has been tweeting about....

It's not just the player's fault, since the coaching seems to be unable to get their buy in to a system.

From what I've seen of the games, TN does well as long as their shots are dropping. When things are going well, they try and run offense (not great offense but at times decent), but as soon as the shots stop going in, they revert to 1-on-1 basketball. You'll see the games they won, they shot a much higher percentage.

Against Stanford they hit a lot of difficult shots, but also passed the ball around on offense to get some open shots. They Shot almost 40% - similarly in the Ky game, their FG % was 45%

So I think you can expect them to win some random games when the shots fall, and lose some when they don't.

 

[UcMiami]

I think that Pat WAS a great coach, even if she was not a great student of the X's and O's of offensive basketball. In every respect except that one (and yes, that is a big one), in her prime she was Geno's peer. She could recruit like Geno, she could get players to play to the utmost of their physical ability even if they did not have those habits coming out of high school, she would not settle for excuses or less than 100% effort in practice, and she could get players with large talents and individual egos to play for the success of the team.

If Pat had the Tennessee rosters of the last few years, they would not have lost half as many games as they did -- even if they never learned to run a sophisticated offense.

I agree with what you say, except WCBB has moved ahead and there are better coaches and much more talent more evenly distributed and while they might have won a few more games the last few years, I don't believe they would have advanced any further than they have in the post season. Not being a student of the game and not installing a functional offense or teaching both technique and help defense was going to expose Pat more and more every year she stayed in the business.

That Philly championship game came during her 'prime' and Uconn made her team look silly on defense because no one knew how to defend against back door passes and no one was helping from the weak side.

 

[vtcwbuff]

What amazes me is that an assistant coach can spend nearly 30 years under the tutelage of the "greatest basketball coach ever" and still be totally clueless about how the game is played. Could it be that "the greatest" wasn't?

 

[Vowelguy]

What amazes me is that an assistant coach can spend nearly 30 years under the tutelage of the "greatest basketball coach ever" and still be totally clueless about how the game is played. Could it be that "the greatest" wasn't?

Jamelle was with Geno for 10+ years and has not exactly lit things up at Cinci.

 

[ctfjr]

Jamelle was with Geno for 10+ years and has not exactly lit things up at Cinci.

ahhh, with all due respect, exactly how many AA's does Jamelle have vs TN?

 

[MSSportsGuy]

My name says it and I am a Mississippi Sports Guy who follows the game and was shocked to see Ole Miss beat UT last night. The Lady Vols have always been a favorite team of mine due to Pat Summitt and the respect I have/had for her program and what she built. Getting such a strong class next year helps the LVs on paper but the current roster is not devoid of talent. I am not sure Warlick is 100% responsible. Players still have to make plays and for whatever reason, I am starting to think the current roster pieces just don't fit, combined with the fact the squad hasn't had an identifiable offensive scheme in most of the years I've watched them.

The game has changed and UT didn't evolve with it, but they are still at top 10 program when you look at pedigree, facilities, support and prestige. They aren't LA Tech or ODU....yet. However, with few exceptions, women's basketball will never make the university money and most of the success hinges on the coaches and staffs. Ole Miss was a very good program in the 80s and early 90s with Van Chancellor because he was a HOF coach who used largely local talent to make a top 3 or 4 SEC program every season. They've had pretty much one good year since he left for the WNBA and that was the E8 team in 2007. Schools don't spend money on the sport unless they have winners who demand it. UT athletics have struggled since the athletic departments were combined and now with no AD, Holly has a job at least until one is hired. Maybe the new AD will support the sport in a way it hasn't been since Pat retired.

 

[triaddukefan]

I bet Southern Miss wishes they were on the Lady Vols schedule this year

 

[Gus Mahler]

Nothing like heading over to Volnation after a "pathetic" loss for a quick pick me up.

Orangian Therapy?

 

[UcMiami]

My name says it and I am a Mississippi Sports Guy who follows the game and was shocked to see Ole Miss beat UT last night. The Lady Vols have always been a favorite team of mine due to Pat Summitt and the respect I have/had for her program and what she built. Getting such a strong class next year helps the LVs on paper but the current roster is not devoid of talent. I am not sure Warlick is 100% responsible. Players still have to make plays and for whatever reason, I am starting to think the current roster pieces just don't fit, combined with the fact the squad hasn't had an identifiable offensive scheme in most of the years I've watched them.

The game has changed and UT didn't evolve with it, but they are still at top 10 program when you look at pedigree, facilities, support and prestige. They aren't LA Tech or ODU....yet. However, with few exceptions, women's basketball will never make the university money and most of the success hinges on the coaches and staffs. Ole Miss was a very good program in the 80s and early 90s with Van Chancellor because he was a HOF coach who used largely local talent to make a top 3 or 4 SEC program every season. They've had pretty much one good year since he left for the WNBA and that was the E8 team in 2007. Schools don't spend money on the sport unless they have winners who demand it. UT athletics have struggled since the athletic departments were combined and now with no AD, Holly has a job at least until one is hired. Maybe the new AD will support the sport in a way it hasn't been since Pat retired.

Yeah - first win against TN in 20 years!
The problem with blaming the players is that TN fans have been doing that since the Stricklen/Spani class in Pat's final years - 'they just weren't winners' but at least the next class was going to be much better, and each class since has proven through their four years under Pat/Holly to have been grossly overrated coming out of high school, but each class about to arrive has been grossly underrated, until they too disappoint.
At some point you have to stop blaming the players coming in and the high school rating system that seems to hoodwink the TN coaches year after year, and start blaming the coaches that aren't teaching and developing the kids through their four years, and aren't running an 'identifiable offensive scheme', nor doing anything more than shout 'stay in your defensive stance' and 'rebound' on the other end.

Agree that they seem to have lost their way in the athletic department, though I actually think the Lady Vols fanatics on staff had something to do with derailing the change process they tried to implement, and no P5 department is fully invested in WCBB the way they are with FB and MCBB. Will be interesting to watch what happens when they final do hire a new AD, but they seem to have lots of problems and a semi-functional WCBB program is probably down the list of initial problem solving on the schedule of tasks facing the new AD.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

My name says it and I am a Mississippi Sports Guy who follows the game and was shocked to see Ole Miss beat UT last night. The Lady Vols have always been a favorite team of mine due to Pat Summitt and the respect I have/had for her program and what she built. Getting such a strong class next year helps the LVs on paper but the current roster is not devoid of talent. I am not sure Warlick is 100% responsible. Players still have to make plays and for whatever reason, I am starting to think the current roster pieces just don't fit, combined with the fact the squad hasn't had an identifiable offensive scheme in most of the years I've watched them.

The game has changed and UT didn't evolve with it, but they are still at top 10 program when you look at pedigree, facilities, support and prestige. They aren't LA Tech or ODU....yet. However, with few exceptions, women's basketball will never make the university money and most of the success hinges on the coaches and staffs. Ole Miss was a very good program in the 80s and early 90s with Van Chancellor because he was a HOF coach who used largely local talent to make a top 3 or 4 SEC program every season. They've had pretty much one good year since he left for the WNBA and that was the E8 team in 2007. Schools don't spend money on the sport unless they have winners who demand it. UT athletics have struggled since the athletic departments were combined and now with no AD, Holly has a job at least until one is hired. Maybe the new AD will support the sport in a way it hasn't been since Pat retired.

There is no way that Tennessee is still "a top 10 program." And they haven't been for years. It was, what, nine years ago that they last made it to the Final Four. They fell out of the Top 25 rankings last year, and dropped out again this year.

Here are the nation's top ten programs: Connecticut, Notre Dame, Baylor, Maryland, Stanford, South Carolina. Perhaps Texas still qualifies, and Florida State and Louisville. Duke and North Carolina used to be.

But Tennessee isn't, and hasn't been for years.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Not being a student of the game and not installing a functional offense or teaching both technique and help defense was going to expose Pat more and more every year she stayed in the business.

Bingo. Never crisper and more definitively stated.