OT: There is Justice in the NFL

[DogMania]

Well, there's Spygate. And Deflategate. And, I said "bending the rules" in that statement so you lump in all of the formations that twist or bend a loophole in the rules and bring them attention. Then you lump in Belichick's general "" attitude in press conferences and it gives a sense to non-Pats fans that the ends justify the means. Sure. We'll cheat if it means we win another Super Bowl.

That's what erases the benefit of the doubt for many people. Like it or not.

If I weren't a Pat's fan, my perception on Belichick would be that he's an arrogant SOB, but a hell of a football coach. The fact that I am a Pat's fan, my perception is he's our SOB and a hell of a football coach.

Tell me Deep, if he were the coach of your team, how would you perceive him and and Pats?

Now do I believe Belichick and the Pats have a do whatever it takes walk that fine line approach to winning? Hell, hes! Do other teams do the same and some have broken worse rules that I think have impacted the outcome of games, such as pumping in extra sound so that the other team's offense can't hear? Yes, yes and yes! Do I think that some of the things that the Pats have done that are at that line or maybe crossed that line, have had a big impact compared to the talent and coaching that talent has had? A big fat NO!!!!

If teams want to beat the Pat's, draft and coach up their players better than what the Pats have done. Few teams have and the ones that have kudos to them. Just few have been able to sustain that level as long as the Pats have which is remarkable considering the salary cap era we live in.

I'm a long time Pats fan that lived through a pretty horrendous run during the early years of this franchise. As long as they have Brady and Belickick, they'll likely continue to be among the top 4 or so teams every season. I don't like cheating, and don't know what to think about the deflated balls situation was or wasn't, but last season with fully inflated suckers, and tons of injuries, they almost made it back to the Super Bowl. Teams that had nearly the number of injuries didn't sniff the playoffs never mind come close to winning it all. If they had home field throughout, they probably would have been in that game and might have repeated, which was impressive considering how many players they lost throughout the season and how banged up they were. I guess if I wasn't a Pat's fan, I'd hate them like I've hated the Yankees during their runs of success, so I understand all this, but the barbs thrown at the Pats and their fans such as the one in this thread is pretty lame and embarrassing.

It's also disgraceful that the NFL and especially Goodell levied such ridiculous penalties on something that was deemed more probably than not, and even if it occurred had no outcome in the game that they were accused of since they destroyed the Colts with fully inflated balls. The whole thing turned into two major things IMO. One is Goodell was likely pressured into an excessive treatment of the Pats as a result of some owners who wanted to stick it to the Pats. Then it turned into a legal case for the League and Goodell for the commissioner to maintain his jury, judge and executioner status as agreed upon via the league's and players union's collectively bargained labor agreement. IMO, as much as I liked the first court ruling, it was probably a decision that went beyond their purview. As much as I don't like the outcome of the recent court decision, it was probably done within what a court should rule on, and Brady's outcome was doomed from the point where Goodell upheld that 4 game suspension. Seriously, as biased was the Wells' report...if you know anything about what Wells does when he's called upon to investigate you'd realize how biased his reports are...even if there was some even more ridiculous investigation where it even proved the balls were not tampered with, once Goodell upheld the ruling and penalty there's nothing a court on this planet could do or should do, which would be to uphold it. Collectively bargained agreements are not something a court can't overrule unless there is something that broke the law. I'm not a lawyer, but I think at worst the court might have been able to do if they felt one party didn't follow their own procedures was to make them go back and do it the right way. I think there was a question in that the person who chose the initial 4 game penalty was the one that should have made that decision, but maybe I'm wrong about that detail. But even if that was the case, the League could simply rule again using the proper procedure and come up with the same outcome, then what?!?!

Part of this entire fiasco is the fault of the Players' Union for allowing Goodell this level of power which is somewhat unprecedented, and then the Goodell IMO abusing that power, though fully within his right to do so. I don't know of any organizations or unions that have an appeal process where the same person who ruled and levied the penalty is the same person who hears the appeal. I can't think of anyone who would see this as either fair or even a logical process, but it is what it is.

Mark this down! There will likely be a time in the future that the commissioner will rule against the team(s) of many of the fans who are bashing the Patriots and Brady, and will cry foul and want Goodell's head on a platter. I would not be surprised if the union tries to change this in the next bargained agreement and the league will either fight to keep it or will use it to barter for something that will benefit the owners financially. But there's a lot of time between now and then, and as long as Goodell has his job he's going to screw others. He's just that type of person. The league is making a ton of money under his rule, but if he pisses off too many owners, he might find himself kicked to the curb. I'm assuming he has more than enough supporting him even though he has likely lost Craft as one of his main supporters, but something tells me he's just not that smart and will make ego driven decisions that will cost him his job.

 

[Husky25]

If Goodell can come to this unsupported judgement vs. Kraft, who was universally viewed as one of Goodell's biggest boot lickers (See Rice, Ray), he absolutely has the cajones to do it to John Mara and the Giants, who spearheaded the punishment vs his own division opponents (conflict of interest much?) when they exceeded the nonexistent salary cap in 2011. That is going to be an enjoyable day.

 

[swami7774]

The Pats go 2-2 without Brady. They go 11-1 the rest of the way, and win their 5th SB.
Thanks for the incentive, Rog.

 

[Deepster]

If I weren't a Pat's fan, my perception on Belichick would be that he's an arrogant SOB, but a hell of a football coach. The fact that I am a Pat's fan, my perception is he's our SOB and a hell of a football coach.

Tell me Deep, if he were the coach of your team, how would you perceive him and and Pats?

Now do I believe Belichick and the Pats have a do whatever it takes walk that fine line approach to winning? Hell, hes! Do other teams do the same and some have broken worse rules that I think have impacted the outcome of games, such as pumping in extra sound so that the other team's offense can't hear? Yes, yes and yes! Do I think that some of the things that the Pats have done that are at that line or maybe crossed that line, have had a big impact compared to the talent and coaching that talent has had? A big fat NO!!!!

If teams want to beat the Pat's, draft and coach up their players better than what the Pats have done. Few teams have and the ones that have kudos to them. Just few have been able to sustain that level as long as the Pats have which is remarkable considering the salary cap era we live in.

I'm a long time Pats fan that lived through a pretty horrendous run during the early years of this franchise. As long as they have Brady and Belickick, they'll likely continue to be among the top 4 or so teams every season. I don't like cheating, and don't know what to think about the deflated balls situation was or wasn't, but last season with fully inflated suckers, and tons of injuries, they almost made it back to the Super Bowl. Teams that had nearly the number of injuries didn't sniff the playoffs never mind come close to winning it all. If they had home field throughout, they probably would have been in that game and might have repeated, which was impressive considering how many players they lost throughout the season and how banged up they were. I guess if I wasn't a Pat's fan, I'd hate them like I've hated the Yankees during their runs of success, so I understand all this, but the barbs thrown at the Pats and their fans such as the one in this thread is pretty lame and embarrassing.

It's also disgraceful that the NFL and especially Goodell levied such ridiculous penalties on something that was deemed more probably than not, and even if it occurred had no outcome in the game that they were accused of since they destroyed the Colts with fully inflated balls. The whole thing turned into two major things IMO. One is Goodell was likely pressured into an excessive treatment of the Pats as a result of some owners who wanted to stick it to the Pats. Then it turned into a legal case for the League and Goodell for the commissioner to maintain his jury, judge and executioner status as agreed upon via the league's and players union's collectively bargained labor agreement. IMO, as much as I liked the first court ruling, it was probably a decision that went beyond their purview. As much as I don't like the outcome of the recent court decision, it was probably done within what a court should rule on, and Brady's outcome was doomed from the point where Goodell upheld that 4 game suspension. Seriously, as biased was the Wells' report...if you know anything about what Wells does when he's called upon to investigate you'd realize how biased his reports are...even if there was some even more ridiculous investigation where it even proved the balls were not tampered with, once Goodell upheld the ruling and penalty there's nothing a court on this planet could do or should do, which would be to uphold it. Collectively bargained agreements are not something a court can't overrule unless there is something that broke the law. I'm not a lawyer, but I think at worst the court might have been able to do if they felt one party didn't follow their own procedures was to make them go back and do it the right way. I think there was a question in that the person who chose the initial 4 game penalty was the one that should have made that decision, but maybe I'm wrong about that detail. But even if that was the case, the League could simply rule again using the proper procedure and come up with the same outcome, then what?!?!

Part of this entire fiasco is the fault of the Players' Union for allowing Goodell this level of power which is somewhat unprecedented, and then the Goodell IMO abusing that power, though fully within his right to do so. I don't know of any organizations or unions that have an appeal process where the same person who ruled and levied the penalty is the same person who hears the appeal. I can't think of anyone who would see this as either fair or even a logical process, but it is what it is.

Mark this down! There will likely be a time in the future that the commissioner will rule against the team(s) of many of the fans who are bashing the Patriots and Brady, and will cry foul and want Goodell's head on a platter. I would not be surprised if the union tries to change this in the next bargained agreement and the league will either fight to keep it or will use it to barter for something that will benefit the owners financially. But there's a lot of time between now and then, and as long as Goodell has his job he's going to screw others. He's just that type of person. The league is making a ton of money under his rule, but if he pisses off too many owners, he might find himself kicked to the curb. I'm assuming he has more than enough supporting him even though he has likely lost Craft as one of his main supporters, but something tells me he's just not that smart and will make ego driven decisions that will cost him his job.

I only read about 7% of this post, but I'll say this:

"Tell me Deep, if he were the coach of your team, how would you perceive him and and Pats?" -- Well, I love Jim Calhoun more than any coach in any sport that I've ever followed and I'm embarrassed about some of the black marks/black eyes the program suffered at the end. It doesn't change the titles for me...but it tarnishes the program from an external view."

"Now do I believe Belichick and the Pats have a do whatever it takes walk that fine line approach to winning? Hell, hes! Do other teams do the same and some have broken worse rules that I think have impacted the outcome of games, such as pumping in extra sound so that the other team's offense can't hear? Yes, yes and yes!" -- I hate this and it's flawed thinking. Everyone else used steroids! So what if Manny did!!!

 

[August_West]

Pats employee camouflaged in NFL films attire taping another teams signals while at same time using radio frequencies they can't explain using after being questioned about it - "Not cheating" says the Pats fan . "Walking the fine line" says the Pats fan . "Goodell is a crook" says the Pats fan. "youre just jealous of winners" says the Pats fan.

 

[mauconnfan]

It's like dueling banjos up in here. But with idiots.

Pot, kettle, black LOL imagine that from you?

 

[mauconnfan]

The deflate-nonsense was the tipping point. Drew Brees said what most rational people are thinking about Goodell these days. Even ESPN, which exists to carry water for the league, is taking shots at him. Guys like Deepster and Mau still ranting about cheating are like the last two guys at a party who should have left a long time ago. They just sound foolish and sort of embarrassing, and they're so wrapped up in their anti-Patriots nonsense that they don't have any sense how silly they sound.

Funny just wondering where I called them "cheaters" - I actually could care less what they did and think the whole thing is nonsense. But their fans are cute and I have fun with them, and other people who aren't too much fun

 

[intlzncster]

Pats employee camouflaged in NFL films attire taping another teams signals while at same time using radio frequencies they can't explain using after being questioned about it - "Not cheating" says the Pats fan . "Walking the fine line" says the Pats fan . "Goodell is a crook" says the Pats fan. "youre just jealous of winners" says the Patsfan.

So wait, you are back on spygate now? That's unrelated.

And just so you know, that was a Brown's employee. Not a Pats employee. And it was just an old story that, according to Matt Walsh, he heard from Ernie Adams.

Do the Pat's bend the rules? Absolutely. And they should. All teams should. The league rule book is a massive, convoluted mess. A huge part of football is strategy, and to come up with a master strategy you've got to know the rules and exploit them to your advantage as best you can.

Vis a vis spygate, the Pats were stupid to continue filming--essentially BB flipping off the league--after they were asked in a memo to not do this. They paid the price for that stupidity.

But that doesn't have anything to do with getting railroaded for deflategate. Except for the idea that a few jealous owners were behind the push to persecute them.

 

[swami7774]

I only read about 7% of this post, but I'll say this:

"Tell me Deep, if he were the coach of your team, how would you perceive him and and Pats?" -- Well, I love Jim Calhoun more than any coach in any sport that I've ever followed and I'm embarrassed about some of the black marks/black eyes the program suffered at the end. It doesn't change the titles for me...but it tarnishes the program from an external view."

"Now do I believe Belichick and the Pats have a do whatever it takes walk that fine line approach to winning? Hell, hes! Do other teams do the same and some have broken worse rules that I think have impacted the outcome of games, such as pumping in extra sound so that the other team's offense can't hear? Yes, yes and yes!" -- I hate this and it's flawed thinking. Everyone else used steroids! So what if Manny did!!!

Belichick WAS the coach of Deepster's team. For a few hours.

 

[Deepster]

Belichick WAS the coach of Deepster's team. For a few hours.

He probably cheated during that brief tenure...

 

[StoweD210]

Belichick WAS the coach of Deepster's team. For a few hours.

Now it makes sense. I'd be angry too, if I had to watch that hot mess flounder around decade after decade.

The funny thing is, Goodell's regime has gone out of their way to hide or minimize cheating by the Jets (filming signals, tampering with players, tampering with footballs, obstructing league investigations, illegal schemes that injure opposing players and so on) and it hasn't helped them.

 

[willie99]

Pats employee camouflaged in NFL films attire taping another teams signals while at same time using radio frequencies they can't explain using after being questioned about it - "Not cheating" says the Pats fan . "Walking the fine line" says the Pats fan . "Goodell is a crook" says the Pats fan. "youre just jealous of winners" says the Pats fan.

simple things amuse simple people who make simple arguments

 

[uconngb]

Yes of course but that is not what I or the post I was responding to was implying. However I have never encountered one person whoever thought he was cheater because of the APR, not one. Which was the point of the post I was responding to.

I also noted how Calhoun "cheated" in the Nate Miles fiasco. You can't have it both ways is my point....and yes, many people do think that APR issues means somehow that UConn players were flunking out of school.