Olympic Oops? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Olympic Oops?

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Having said that, Parker's WNBA team is undefeated: 5-0. Seems as though chemistry isn't an overwhelming problem in LA.

Yeah, That's why LA has all those championship trophies in their display case since Parker joined the team. LOL

Seems to me it should be about fielding the best team with the greatest opportunity to win all the marbles. Loyalty, unless it's about national loyalty, shouldn't be the ultimate, or even a critical, factor.

USA BB has made it clear that they want to build a program in which players get involved at a young age and learn to play together as they mature. You suggest that they should just pick the top 12 scorers for the first 5 games in the Olympic year. I like the committee's desire for continuity better than your idea.

Yes. But of course, we all knew long before this WNBA season began that Candace Parker was probably the premier power forward in the country. And now we still know she's the best power forward in the country. So what exactly were the reasons for leaving her off? Oh, right. No one's talking.

The best? Maybe the best scorer but even then she only scores a lot if you give her 20 shots a game. The USA team isn't about to do that. IMO Parker is a great scoring forward who needs to be the focus of the offense to be effective. Ask her to be just one of five and she sulks. JMO of course.

And it isn't true that no one is talking. One person has done a lot of talking. Parker. And that says a lot about her class.


McBride is scoring more than Parker but no one is whining that she should be on the team. Catchings isn't among the top 30 scorers and yet no one is calling for her to be replaced? And Stewart is 4th in rebounding and 6th in scoring and yet many are saying she doesn't belong.

I'd take some of Parker's supporters more seriously if they hadn't done the same thing 4 years ago when she didn't start. Some went so far as to say they would root for the USA team to lose.

I used to worship Mickey Mantle as a child. Whenever he took a strike I blamed the blind umpire. Then I grew up.
 
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DaddyChoc

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do we really expect nice warm fuzzy comments for a former Lady Vol... everyone in the thread 6 months ago thought she was a lock. Now everyone is waging their tongue (like she did) just to get under the skin of LV fan who are most definitely lurking on this thread (check the views)
 

Fightin Choke

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Just for the record, Candace does not play the 3 for LA. The accompanying starters for LA are Nneka, Essence Carson, Kristi Tolliver, and Alana Beard, so Candace must be either the 4 or the 5 for the Sparks. Also, Candace's defense seems pretty amazing when measured empirically. Now I know that the stats cannot show everything, but Candace has been very good on defense (statistically) for a long while.
  • In 2016, she is 6th in offensive win shares, 1st in defensive win shares, and 4th overall in win shares. (2016 defensive and offensive rating are not yet available on basketball reference website)
  • In 2015, she was 8th in offensive rating, 7th in defensive rating, and her win shares/48 minutes was second. (She missed half the season to rest though).
  • In 2014, she was top 10 in neither offensive nor defensive rating, although she was 5th in win shares just missed the top 10 in offensive rating, and was 10th in defensive rating.
  • In 2013, she was outside the top 10 in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating, 6th in offensive win shares, and 4th in defensive win shares. (won MVP)
  • In 2012, she was outside the top 10 in offensive rating, 4th in defensive rating, 6th in offensive win shares, and 8th in defensive win shares.
  • In 2011, she was injured half the year (knee injury).
  • In 2010, she was injured 2/3 of the year (shoulder injury).
  • In 2009, she was outside the top 10 in offensive rating, 2nd in defensive rating, outside the top 10 in offensive win shares, and 5th in defensive win shares.
  • In 2008 (her rookie season), she was 9th in offensive rating, 3rd in defensive rating, 3rd in offensive win shares, and 2nd in defensive win shares. (Won MVP)
Her defense is rated higher than her offense in every season.

As far as her poor shooting percentage to start the year, her 45.5% shooting percentage this season is higher than the following Olympians:

44.7% Elena Delle Donne
43.2% Sue Bird
41.8% Breanna Stewart
40.4% Angel McCoughtry
40.0% Seimone Augustus
37.9% Tamika Catchings
37.1% Diana Taurasi
 

UcMiami

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Well, Parker may be the lucky one in the end:

More than 100 leading scientists say the Rio Olympics should be moved or postponed over the Zika outbreak. The group says new findings about the virus make it "unethical" for the games to go ahead in an open letter to the World Health Organization.

Zika crisis: Rio Olympics 'should be moved or postponed' - BBC News
Yeah - I saw that. I hadn't really considered the public health hazard of the disease being disseminated globally by the athletes and the 100s of thousands of spectators. I understood the risk for the people who went to the games, not for the global community that stayed home. It could to some degree mimic the influenza epidemic spread by all the soldiers returning from WWI - that one only killed 50-100 million people!
 

triaddukefan

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I know there were lots of reasons posed for Candace Parker's being left off the Olympic roster at the time. But now that we're five games into the WNBA season, and Parker is ripping a tornado-like path through the league, can we now say that it's beginning to look as though the selection committee really blew it?

Candace Parker - WNBA

Parker is the fifth leading scorer with nearly 21 points a game, she's eighth in rebounds with 7.5, she's tenth in blocks, and twelfth in assists. She's outscoring another roster center, Griner; she's outscoring and out rebounding roster forward Tamika Catching; she's outscoring Seimone Augustus. And she's younger than Catchings. There were hints that Parker wasn't a "team player," though they selected McCaughtry, who has been benched for long periods with no obvious physical ailments.

Can we now say that the decision to leave Parker off the roster is looking pretty bad right now?

I found it hard to believe that they left Parker off the roster....... but at least she will get to rest her body and spend time with her great Husband and child.... and hopefully lead the Sparks to a WNBA title. I think a title would mean more to her than another Olympic Medal.

But..... personally..... I didnt plan to watch a minute of the women's olympic basketball..... with or without Parker.... so I dont really care too much. For me.. the olympics are for watching track and field.... swimming..... volleyball........ and those types of sports.
 
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Parker is playing all out because she is trying to prove that she should be on the team. If she had done that all the time, there is no doubt that she would have been selected.

This proves that the committee is right by not selected her. She had more to give and didn't for whatever reason.
I couldn't agree with you more.
 
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i am surprised that no one has mentioned that Catchings will primarily be a defensive stopper...Bird will be expected to get the ball from the back court to the front court...Angel can guard anyone especially scoring international 2 & 3.s...Griner will defend the rim and rebound and when mismatched against smaller bigs...scoring falls to DT and Maya and Tina...Stewie and EDD and Lindsay at times off the bench off the bench...and everyone will play good defense or they will be watching a lot...
 
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I couldn't agree with you more.

This argument really doesn't hold up... Fighting Choke provided some great insight to combat said argument.

USA's most recent string of games in Europe saw Candace in the top 3 in almost every statistic and she recorded a triple double. She and EDD started and played often together and Breanna Stewart spoke on how Candace took her under her wing.

One the most recent USA basketball camps Geno describe Maya and Candace being on another level than the rest which makes the decision all that more mind boggling.

She has won a title on every level and league she has played in with the exception of the WNBA.

As for prima donna... she isn't like of some of the olympians who have demanded trades from their WNBA teams and former and current teammates are some of her biggest supporters. See Alberta Auguste's account of what Parker meant to her as a teammate and the impression she left.

Tina and Lisa, two USA basketball legends, along with Diana Taurasi have praised Candace multiple times over the years and all three have been quoted in the past as having the opinion that Parker is one of the best players in the world. All three have played both professionally and USA basketball with Parker.

As a women's basketball fan in general (take the Lady Vol part out of it) it is very disappointing and I've yet to hear a quality argument as to why she was left off the team and probably never will. So I'm over it... although it will be hard not to think about as I root for the USA team to win gold...
 
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I find it suspicious that none of her fellow ball players (players selected) have voiced outrage that CP was not selected. To me that speaks volumes.
 

shinobimono

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I find it suspicious that none of her fellow ball players (players selected) have voiced outrage that CP was not selected. To me that speaks volumes.
I don't think that is a convincing argument. It has been addressed by others in other threads on this subject. The point of view expressed has been that once you are on the Olympic team (or any USA Basketball team) you don't want to rock the boat and potentially jeopardize your position on the team by criticizing the selection committee, even indirectly by simply supporting Candace, let alone by letting the committee know that you are "outraged," so self-censorship is exercised, consciously or otherwise. It's a tremendous honor to be on the team and imparts a special status to the players, putting them among America's (or even world's) 12-best players. I'm pretty sure that being a multiple USA Olympic Team member helps push their overseas earning potential upwards. I'm curious if anyone else knows, but I would image that players may get bonuses from their sponsors for making the Olympic team (or becoming league MVP, etc.), so it probably also has some economic impact. I believe some players who made the team have expressed surprise when asked about Candace's exclusion, but I think it's quite understandable that players don't want to critically weigh in on the subject and potentially alienate the committee.
 

HuskyNan

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OK - let's recap the "Candace Parker isn't on the Olympic team" threads (all 12 million of them):

1. The Olympic team was announced and Parker's name wasn't on the roster
2. Fan of all teams almost universally expressed shock and disbelief, including UConn fans
3. Fans of other schools besides UConn state that Geno is somehow at fault
4. Candace Parker released a mature, adult statement that she was disappointed but supported the Olympic team
5. After carefully thinking it over, Parker decided it was appropriate to post a video of her dunking over UConn on social media
6. Gleeful fans decided the video was Parker's code for saying "it was Geno's fault"
7. In the absence of confirmed facts or useful statements from the Selection Committee, UConn fans have to search for a logical reason that Parker was left off the roster.
8. Arguments popped up everywhere, resurrecting old hurts and creating new ones between two fan bases that just don't seem to be able to move on
9. With no new information forthcoming, the topic is locked to prevent flame wars, name-calling, and hard feelings between people that usually get along just fine

Then...

10. It starts all over again. The horse is dead, beaten to a pulp but one molecule appears to be un-pulpy

Expected result: 8. and 9. are inevitable

sigh.
 
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This argument really doesn't hold up... Fighting Choke provided some great insight to combat said argument.

USA's most recent string of games in Europe saw Candace in the top 3 in almost every statistic and she recorded a triple double. She and EDD started and played often together and Breanna Stewart spoke on how Candace took her under her wing.

One the most recent USA basketball camps Geno describe Maya and Candace being on another level than the rest which makes the decision all that more mind boggling.

She has won a title on every level and league she has played in with the exception of the WNBA.

As for prima donna... she isn't like of some of the olympians who have demanded trades from their WNBA teams and former and current teammates are some of her biggest supporters. See Alberta Auguste's account of what Parker meant to her as a teammate and the impression she left.

Tina and Lisa, two USA basketball legends, along with Diana Taurasi have praised Candace multiple times over the years and all three have been quoted in the past as having the opinion that Parker is one of the best players in the world. All three have played both professionally and USA basketball with Parker.

As a women's basketball fan in general (take the Lady Vol part out of it) it is very disappointing and I've yet to hear a quality argument as to why she was left off the team and probably never will. So I'm over it... although it will be hard not to think about as I root for the USA team to win gold...

Good points. Further, I find the posts suggesting that it is good for her that she's not in the Olympics because she can use that time to relax and spend time with her husband and child more than a little patronizing. This is one of the premier woman athletes on the planet. I'm sure she can balance her family and sports obligations very well, thank you very much. And suggesting that a woman athlete will be happier not participating in the Olympics because it's better to spend time with hubby is quite presumptuous.
 
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I find it suspicious that none of her fellow ball players (players selected) have voiced outrage that CP was not selected. To me that speaks volumes.

Players are not in a position to criticize their coaches. They have to think of the repercussions to them if they criticize their bosses, such as being black-balled from future USA teams. And even if they don't fear being punished, it's still not the place of the players to criticize the people to whom they report. This isn't the NBA where players make multiple millions and can go anywhere they want virtually any time they want, and coaches are almost interchangeable.

Players have to exercise caution in women's basketball.
 

MilfordHusky

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Just for the record, Candace does not play the 3 for LA. The accompanying starters for LA are Nneka, Essence Carson, Kristi Tolliver, and Alana Beard, so Candace must be either the 4 or the 5 for the Sparks. Also, Candace's defense seems pretty amazing when measured empirically. Now I know that the stats cannot show everything, but Candace has been very good on defense (statistically) for a long while.
  • In 2016, she is 6th in offensive win shares, 1st in defensive win shares, and 4th overall in win shares. (2016 defensive and offensive rating are not yet available on basketball reference website)
  • In 2015, she was 8th in offensive rating, 7th in defensive rating, and her win shares/48 minutes was second. (She missed half the season to rest though).
  • In 2014, she was top 10 in neither offensive nor defensive rating, although she was 5th in win shares just missed the top 10 in offensive rating, and was 10th in defensive rating.
  • In 2013, she was outside the top 10 in offensive rating, 1st in defensive rating, 6th in offensive win shares, and 4th in defensive win shares. (won MVP)
  • In 2012, she was outside the top 10 in offensive rating, 4th in defensive rating, 6th in offensive win shares, and 8th in defensive win shares.
  • In 2011, she was injured half the year (knee injury).
  • In 2010, she was injured 2/3 of the year (shoulder injury).
  • In 2009, she was outside the top 10 in offensive rating, 2nd in defensive rating, outside the top 10 in offensive win shares, and 5th in defensive win shares.
  • In 2008 (her rookie season), she was 9th in offensive rating, 3rd in defensive rating, 3rd in offensive win shares, and 2nd in defensive win shares. (Won MVP)
Her defense is rated higher than her offense in every season.

As far as her poor shooting percentage to start the year, her 45.5% shooting percentage this season is higher than the following Olympians:

44.7% Elena Delle Donne
43.2% Sue Bird
41.8% Breanna Stewart
40.4% Angel McCoughtry
40.0% Seimone Augustus
37.9% Tamika Catchings
37.1% Diana Taurasi
Choke, thanks for the info on Candace's position. Are they running a 3-guard offense by design, or is Lavender hurt? Last year, they seemed to start Jantel, Nneka, and Candace, in which case Candace appeared to be playing the 3 position.
 

MilfordHusky

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I'm sorry, but "when she plays hard"? She's been the powerhouse in the league amongst bigs for years. I find it difficult to question her work ethic when the results are so mind-boggling.

Is that what we think happened? The committee thought she just doesn't work hard? Wasn't she a beast during the last Olympic games?
Candace had a good Olympics overall in 2012, and people particularly remember her stellar gold medal game against France, which is a finesse team. Some folks seem to forget her weak performance against the physical Aussies. I think that (plus other things) hurt her consideration this year.
 
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I just wonder whether Coach Geno isn't playing it too safe this time. He's gone with the old guard, but they are a lot older than the last time. This looks like a risk.
I just wonder whether Coach Geno isn't playing it too safe this time. He's gone with the old guard, but they are a lot older than the last time. This looks like a risk.
USA Basketball selected the team not Coach Auriemma
 

easttexastrash

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IMO, Parker should have been on the team and there are a few players who she could have replaced, including Griner, Catchings and Stewart. And based on her performance against Chicago, in which she completely outplayed EDD, you can add EDD to the list. I am not certain how often EDD has played for Team USA, though.

Parker is in a unique position as she has a young child. She has demands on her that most of the other players do not so to expect her to always be available to play for the National Team is not as simple as it is for the other players. How many of the other players are trying to balance being a parent with being available for the National Team? None?
 
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IMO, Parker should have been on the team and there are a few players who she could have replaced, including Griner, Catchings and Stewart. And based on her performance against Chicago, in which she completely outplayed EDD, you can add EDD to the list. I am not certain how often EDD has played for Team USA, though.

Parker is in a unique position as she has a young child. She has demands on her that most of the other players do not so to expect her to always be available to play for the National Team is not as simple as it is for the other players. How many of the other players are trying to balance being a parent with being available for the National Team? None?

No, Parker is not in a unique position as a parent. There are literally scores of Olympians, men and women, who have families. Are you really saying that any athlete, male or female, who has children should be excluded from the USA Olympic team? Or are you saying that only women athletes who have children should be excluded from participation on the American Olympic Team? Do you really want to take this country and women athletes back to the 1950's? I should think that Ms. Parker's family would assist with child care while she's on the Olympic team. But if not, that is a consideration for Candace Parker, and not one that should in any way be used to disqualify her from competing.

This is the Twenty First Century, for goodness sake!!!!!!
 
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IMO, Parker should have been on the team and there are a few players who she could have replaced, including Griner, Catchings and Stewart. And based on her performance against Chicago, in which she completely outplayed EDD, you can add EDD to the list. I am not certain how often EDD has played for Team USA, though.

Parker is in a unique position as she has a young child. She has demands on her that most of the other players do not so to expect her to always be available to play for the National Team is not as simple as it is for the other players. How many of the other players are trying to balance being a parent with being available for the National Team? None?

No, Parker is not in a unique position as a parent. There are literally scores of Olympians, men and women, who have families. Are you really saying that any athlete, male or female, who has children should be excluded from the USA Olympic team? Or are you saying that only women athletes who have children should be excluded from participation on the American Olympic Team? Do you really want to take this country and women athletes back to the 1950's? I should think that Ms. Parker's family would assist with child care while she's on the Olympic team. But if not, that is a consideration for Candace Parker, and not one that should in any way be used to disqualify her from competing.

This is the Twenty First Century, for goodness sake!!!!!!
 

easttexastrash

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I guess you haven't seen many Phoenix games. Dee hasn't been playing much defense this season.

What's wrong with the Phoenix Mercury? - Excelle Sports

Great article. BG has looked confused on defense, and partly because the guards are playing such horrible defense that they are not forcing the opposing guards into the position that BG is expecting. The guards are not containing their players and are consistently getting blow past and BG is forced to try to guard them farther from the basket and is pick up fouls because she is not as fast with her footwork than the guards, who are experts in this league at initiating contact and drawing fouls.

And on offense, BG is 25 feet from the basket setting screens for the guards. How often do you see Fowles 25 feet from the basket setting picks for the guards. Fowles is allowed to play around the basket where she is most effective. BG will never be effective playing 25 feet from the basket.
 

easttexastrash

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No, Parker is not in a unique position as a parent. There are literally scores of Olympians, men and women, who have families. Are you really saying that any athlete, male or female, who has children should be excluded from the USA Olympic team? Or are you saying that only women athletes who have children should be excluded from participation on the American Olympic Team? Do you really want to take this country and women athletes back to the 1950's? I should think that Ms. Parker's family would assist with child care while she's on the Olympic team. But if not, that is a consideration for Candace Parker, and not one that should in any way be used to disqualify her from competing.

This is the Twenty First Century, for goodness sake!!!!!!

Maybe you can point out to me how many of the other players in the Olympic pool for USA women's basketball are in the same position that Parker is.

I am saying exactly the OPPOSITE of what you are implying that I am saying. I am saying that I think Parker has been discriminated against because she cannot dedicate the same amount of time to Team USA that non-parents can. Of course those who have fewer family obligations are going to be available whenever they are called. So get off the attack wagon here. You and I are on the SAME page, not in two different books as you apparently perceived my comments to indicate.

Does Team USA assist with child care for the Olympic athletes?
 
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Gate81

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i agree with both of you and frankly wonder if she's been put at a disadvantage because she has more on her plate -- which has NOT affected her performance. She'd probably be a huge asset to the team as a balanced player and person.
 
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IMO, Parker should have been on the team and there are a few players who she could have replaced, including Griner, Catchings and Stewart. And based on her performance against Chicago, in which she completely outplayed EDD, you can add EDD to the list. I am not certain how often EDD has played for Team USA, though.

Parker is in a unique position as she has a young child. She has demands on her that most of the other players do not so to expect her to always be available to play for the National Team is not as simple as it is for the other players. How many of the other players are trying to balance being a parent with being available for the National Team? None?
Stewie is 6th in scoring tied for 3rd in rebounds, among the top 6 in blocks and steals, so no she isn't one who Candace could replace. They both should be on the team over players like Angel, and Simone. This team has no need for 4 guards, when you have players like Maya who could play the off guard. Stewie, and Candace can play the 3, 4 spot with some time at the 5 giving opponents fits.
 

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