North Carolina and Virginia may have Big Ten offers | Page 3 | The Boneyard

North Carolina and Virginia may have Big Ten offers

Status
Not open for further replies.

whaler11

Head Happy Hour Coach
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
44,376
Reaction Score
68,269
I was talking about basketball. Basketball may not be the driving factor in any of this but I care about college basketball a HELL of a lot more than college football (which is the most overrated sport currently in America, a sport that by late October is truly meaningful for about 5-10 teams in the country).

Splitting up Duke and UNC is wrong on so many levels. Just because football drives the bus doesn't mean there won't be a breaking point where some of us turn our money and attention to other avenues because the process has been so repellent.


You are barking up the wrong tree then. If you don't like CFB you can't follow this stuff.
 

The Funster

What?
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
2,949
Reaction Score
8,655
I once thought that unc to the b1g was inevitable. Then I spoke to my cousin (unc alumn) at a family party about his alma mater joining osu, um and pus and he went off on the north. Essentially turned into the stereotypical southerner - and he is from ct. Then I paid attention to the message boards and realized that unc fans are very dukes of hazard. They stay in acc or move to sec...they definitely DO NOT join a predominently northern league.

The attitude of the typical carolinan is that there are yankees and there are damned yankees according to my living in NC but transplanted from NYC brother in law.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,143
Reaction Score
45,560
this could be a ploy to get ESPN to step up big. They are about to lose the ACC, which together with the Big East going to NBC, will cost ESPN a lot of content.

I like your idea here.

On the other hand, I give this a lot of credence.

I played a what if today: what if 4 conferences of 16 teams?

I didn't like what I saw, not at all.

UNC might see the writing on the wall here, IF it believes FSU and Clemson are headed elsewhere. Then it knows the ACC is going to be marginalized, and that it will need a landing.

In that context, UNC to Big10 makes sense.

Just play the realignment game with 4 16-team conferences, and you'll see what I mean. Send 4 from the B12 to the Pac12, replace them with FSU, Clemson, Miami and GT. Then take VT and NC St and add to SEC.

What are you left with? BYU and Boise St. in the west, UConn, BC, Cuse, Pitt, Cincy, Duke, WF, USF on the Atlantic Coast.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
3,023
Reaction Score
3,684
UNC's endowment is more than 7 times larger than UConn's. They absolutely do not need the money. Not even an argument.
 

whaler11

Head Happy Hour Coach
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
44,376
Reaction Score
68,269
this could be a ploy to get ESPN to step up big. They are about to lose the ACC, which together with the Big East going to NBC, will cost ESPN a lot of content.

LOL yeah the Big East is about to go to NBC by selling a league with no set membership.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,143
Reaction Score
45,560
fyi rutger sput up billboards all over ny/nj with the b10 logo today. we can't even get a couple(more than 2) boards for season tix. unreal.

Billboards are the dinosaur's answer to advertising.

One ad exec I talked to said they call them Blue Serge ads. I said, Blue what? He said they find out where clients/execs live and then make sure to put billboards on the roads from his/her home to the office. OK. Why Blue Serge? It was a suit that execs wore in the 50s, heavy fabric, almost indestructible. You could pee in it--> it would make you feel warm, but no one else could see it. Like a billboard.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,143
Reaction Score
45,560
UNC's endowment is more than 7 times larger than UConn's. They absolutely do not need the money. Not even an argument.

Texas and Michigan lose money on sports.

Schools are not going to kiss away $13 million a year.

They're not going to spend endowment money on non-essentials, not in this environment where states are slashing education.
 

Dann

#4hunnid
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
9,907
Reaction Score
7,194
Billboards are the dinosaur's answer to advertising.

One ad exec I talked to said they call them Blue Serge ads. I said, Blue what? He said they find out where clients/execs live and then make sure to put billboards on the roads from his/her home to the office. OK. Why Blue Serge? It was a suit that execs wore in the 50s, heavy fabric, almost indestructible. You could pee in it--> it would make you feel warm, but no one else could see it. Like a billboard.

i'm not sure what to say. put a billboard along 95 in stamford. but your telling me no one will see it? i dont care if not 1 more person buys a ticket or tshirt, but we need to atleast give off the impression that fc and nyc matter to us.
 

nelsonmuntz

Point Center
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
43,953
Reaction Score
32,129
You realize the paydays that the leftover ACC teams are about to receive if all of this stuff comes true? 7 teams leave would mean $350 million for the remaining ACC members.

The smart move would be to let FSU, Clemson, UNC, UVA, VTech, and NC State go, and use part of the money to pay for UConn, Cincinnati, USF and Louisville's Big East departure fees from the Big East. Find another football school like Villanova or Temple, and form a 12 team league but keep the entire ESPN/ACC deal. There is no way in hell ESPN voids the contract at this point. A $240MM a year deal divided by 14 is ok. Divided by 12, it is pretty good.
 

The Funster

What?
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
2,949
Reaction Score
8,655
UNC to the B1G is just insane. College sports will have gone round the twist if that ever happens.
 

whaler11

Head Happy Hour Coach
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
44,376
Reaction Score
68,269
When one is looking for a football school how far do they dig before they get to Villanova?
 

RS9999X

There's no Dark Side .....it's all Dark.
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
5,628
Reaction Score
562
The leftover rumors from last year had NC State and V Tech going to the SEC. UNC and Virginia going to the BiG. FSU and Georgia Tech and Clemson going to the B12 along with Louisville.

I'm not losing sleep over this. I think the BiG got what they wanted and will sit for a bit. The B12 and SEC won't be taking the teams most attractive to the BiG anyway -- Notre Dame and Virginia.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
3,023
Reaction Score
3,684
Texas and Michigan lose money on sports.

Schools are not going to kiss away $13 million a year.

They're not going to spend endowment money on non-essentials, not in this environment where states are slashing education.

Do you have a link that shows that Texas and Michigan lose money on sports? All I'm reading is that both make money on sports.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
5,546
Reaction Score
15,564
In the end there will be the haves and the have knots. Super conferences 3 1/2. The 1/2 would be the pack 10. In the end college sports is diluted. The have knots become 1AA level programs.

Or maybe not.

Why the hell did I spell nots knots damn spell correct.
 

whaler11

Head Happy Hour Coach
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
44,376
Reaction Score
68,269
In the end there will be the haves and the have knots. Super conferences 3 1/2. The 1/2 would be the pack 10. In the end college sports is diluted. The have knots become 1AA level programs.

Or maybe not.

Knots. Pack 10.

Please blame booze.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
8,125
Reaction Score
15,104
I don't buy NC or Texas to B1G. Sounds like a pretty neat rumor to float to serve someone's purposes.
 

TRest

Horrible
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
7,840
Reaction Score
22,275
I don't like where college sports are headed due to realignment either, but am willing to lose the UNC-Duke hoops rivalry as collateral damage.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,143
Reaction Score
45,560
Do you have a link that shows that Texas and Michigan lose money on sports? All I'm reading is that both make money on sports.

I've posted this numerous times.

Now I just searched for it and it's gone, but I seem to have the screen grab article here:

www.dailytexanonline.com/university/the-real-relationship-between-ut-s-academic-and-athletic-budgets-1.2140563+texas+mack+brown+"david+hillis"+trademark+donations

I'll post part of the text:

Many outside UT seem to think that we also receive positive net income from intercollegiate athletics, since the gross income from this source seems enormous (e.g., gross income for intercollegiate athletics was $105,230,260 in 2008-2009, the latest figures available, or a little less than 5 percent of UT’s total income from all sources). But athletics expenses (e.g., $107, 283,744 in 2008-2009) are even higher than its income. To make up the difference, UT has to “transfer in” large amounts from general revenue funds such as Trademark Income. In addition, because Intercollegiate Athletics has run up an enormous debt ($222,488,000 by 2008-2009), we have to transfer even larger sums from general revenue sources to the Athletics Operations Cash reserves, so that we have enough reserves to pay our debt obligations from athletics in years that we do not go to a BCS bowl. This is necessary because when UT is not at the top of the national rankings, even the large “transfers in” to athletics from general revenues are not enough to cover our athletic department debt.

Athletics at UT is often claimed to be “self-supporting,” so does this description fit with the numbers above? It is only “self-supporting” once the transfers into athletics from general University revenue funds are added to “Income and Transfers In” account. This amounts to a huge subsidy to athletics, which comes at a cost to the rest of the University.

The author is David Hillis, an administrator at UT. the debt income was borne by the academic side from building out facilities.

This is how it works. They collect private money for the buildout, but instead of using it to build facilities, they include it in the athletic budget as contribution revenue. Thus, that beefs up sports profits (i.e. Texas sports contributes to the school each year--except for the year Hillis quotes in this article) while the academic side services the debt.

Here's the same dynamic at Michigan:

http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2007/09/um_professors_urge_reconsidera.html

Last time I looked into this, I pulled up the athletic department budget. They do contribute to the debt service for the stadium. About $2 million a year.

Let me know if you can get a loan that requires you to pay back less than 1% of the principal per year. That would be a fantastic loan.
 

FfldCntyFan

Texas: Property of UConn Men's Basketball program
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
11,900
Reaction Score
39,535
The attitude of the typical carolinan is that there are yankees and there are damned yankees according to my living in NC but transplanted from NYC brother in law.
True. The damned Yankees show up with U-Hauls!
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
3,023
Reaction Score
3,684
I've posted this numerous times.

Now I just searched for it and it's gone, but I seem to have the screen grab article here:

www.dailytexanonline.com/university/the-real-relationship-between-ut-s-academic-and-athletic-budgets-1.2140563+texas+mack+brown+"david+hillis"+trademark+donations

I'll post part of the text:



The author is David Hillis, an administrator at UT. the debt income was borne by the academic side from building out facilities.

This is how it works. They collect private money for the buildout, but instead of using it to build facilities, they include it in the athletic budget as contribution revenue. Thus, that beefs up sports profits (i.e. Texas sports contributes to the school each year--except for the year Hillis quotes in this article) while the academic side services the debt.

Here's the same dynamic at Michigan:

http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2007/09/um_professors_urge_reconsidera.html

Last time I looked into this, I pulled up the athletic department budget. They do contribute to the debt service for the stadium. About $2 million a year.

Let me know if you can get a loan that requires you to pay back less than 1% of the principal per year. That would be a fantastic loan.

Interesting. But remember that that was in 08-09 when Texas didn't have the Longhorn network to give them close to 15 million a year. And that deal was signed with IMG so that UT and IMG split huge royalty payments each year, which I'm sure goes towards athletics.
 

RMoore1999

Illegitimi Non Carborundum!
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
1,005
Reaction Score
1,514
how can anyone possibly say uva or unc doesn't need the money? they may be in fine financial shape, but how cna u possibly say they wouldn't be happy with double the money in a different conf? not having schools like wake deflate the $ etc... silly

the reason md and ruty were 1st is this. nd is the lock in the last pair with a wildcard(hopefully uconn). u take md first becuase unc wont be the one to break up the acc, they will wait until its to late and dead and then move to save themselves ****ing duke. there is no connecting states rule in the b10, thats bc theory stuff but they do feel that geography is important to a degree. so u take md who is willing to be the first shaker in acc land and ruty. now u have shown your hand and what your doing. u basically just thumped major chest from dc to nyc. now your clearly going to grab the east coast and force nd in the last pair. now u invite uva and unc and lock them up as the acc falls apart. sec and b12 eat up teams also so its not all your fault. then 2015 rolls around nd calls and you grab a new england school and call yourself the norths only conf.

If you're saying ND controls our invite to the BiG, we are screwed. I understand why B1g might prefer a public land grant like UConn, but ND ain't gonna give a rat's ass about that -- they'd prefer bcu.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,143
Reaction Score
45,560
Interesting. But remember that that was in 08-09 when Texas didn't have the Longhorn network to give them close to 15 million a year. And that deal was signed with IMG so that UT and IMG split huge royalty payments each year, which I'm sure goes towards athletics.

Hillis made a lot more arguments. For instance, all university royalties for gear and logo etc. ($35 million) are the second largest part of the budget after donations. He said, if you compare the net take of these royalties to a school such as Cal-San Diego or New York University, you could make the case that Texas would sell at least as much as these non-sports schools, at least as much since it's a state flagship, and that thus at least $8 million of of the $35 million should more properly be allocated to the academic side. He then wrote that when donors to the Longhorn Foundation ($45 million in contributions) were polled, a good 40% of them had absolutely no idea that they were not contributing to academics. But these may be piddling things, I really don't care. It's the debt service that is huge. Like I said, Texas gives $10-15 million a year to the school, but when you take into account debt service, cost per student subsidy, royalties, they don't make money.

Bizlawyer had a good point that the increased revenue is simply spent as malinvestment. I agree, so the argument that more money is better is simply dubious. Hillis made the same argument. He wondered why in the world Texas raised Mack brown's salary from $4 million to $5 million. That's poor resource management right there. No way any other school in America pays Mack Brown $5 million. But the flip side is that Rutgers administrators are very happy tonight.
 

CL82

2023 NCAA Men’s Basketball National Champions
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
56,511
Reaction Score
206,273
So let's assume:

B1G - UNC, UVA
SEC - NC State, VT
Big12 - Florida State, Clemson

ACC - UConn, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Cincy, USF, UCF, Temple - ND hoops.

STILL better than where we are right now. Hell, add St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova for hoops.

At this point we'll have some regional rivals and still great hoops.

It's not the ideal situation, but it's not the worse - not by far.

Do we have to bring Temple?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
438
Guests online
3,539
Total visitors
3,977

Forum statistics

Threads
155,780
Messages
4,031,420
Members
9,864
Latest member
Sad Tiger


Top Bottom