Must Read: New York Times article on UConn - Conference Realignment

[FlyRyGuy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/s...l-drags-on-uconns-power-5-ambitions.html?_r=0

 

[Samanthabrown3]

Thanks. Good overview of the situation.

I'd be in favor of giving up football to get back in the Big East, but I don't think that will happen.

 

[iamcbs]

I've been saying the same thing this article says, on board every since I've been a member. Unless and until UConn significantly upgrades its Football Program it will never be in a P5 conference no matter how many Natty's the school wins in Basketball.

 

[huskyd]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/s...l-drags-on-uconns-power-5-ambitions.html?_r=0

What I find chilling about this article is the not surprising power of the purse. According to the Time's money stats, UConn is acting like a top athletic program while essentially living in the red. At some point the Huskies need to align their aspirations with their income. Obviously they can't force their way into the Power 5, lacking the key leveraging component. It seems as if the investment in football has not panned out, but that there is strong objection to dropping the sport. But that's my point: who controls the purse, controls the prince. Geno's continued presence at UConn may be the slim cord by which the future of the great program he's developed is held together. This does not auger well for the day when he leaves.

 

[Mattala]

Thanks. Good overview of the situation.

I'd be in favor of giving up football to get back in the Big East, but I don't think that will happen.

Ain't happening

 

[stamfordhusky]

Ain't happening

Yes, it's not happening - but it's too bad football was ever upgraded. UConn would be in better position if they were like Villanova. In the Big East for all sports except football, and having a strong FCS football team. Unfortunately with the investment in the new stadium, football is not going to be downgraded. But it is also very unlikely to ever be strong.

 

[Vowelguy]

Thanks. Good overview of the situation.

I'd be in favor of giving up football to get back in the Big East, but I don't think that will happen.

The problem is that the Big10 and SEC are earning GOBS of money. Eventually they are going to be able to bury the lesser conferences, including the Big East.

 

[EricLA]

But why can't it at least by like Rutgers? For all that we make fun of them, their stadium seats over 52,000. UCONN's seats 40,000. We need to add 10-15,000 seats and then work on filling them. Rutgers did average over 47,000 fans per game, more than even UCONN's capacity. Side note - Northwestern and Purdue both averaged 33K and 35.5K respectively - not good, but they are already in. UCONN on the other hand averaged just north of 28,000 fans. Won't get it done in any conference except one like the American.

 

[Vowelguy]

Yes, it's not happening - but it's too bad football was ever upgraded. UConn would be in better position if they were like Villanova.

No it wouldn't.
One of the main reasons for upgrading football was to protect the rest of UConn athletics. Teams not in one of the big 5 conferences are at a major disadvantage financially that will eventually be insurmountable.

FCS is a money loser. Typically a big money loser.

 

[cohenzone]

I've been saying the same thing this article says, on board every since I've been a member. Unless and until UConn significantly upgrades its Football Program it will never be in a P5 conference no matter how many Natty's the school wins in Basketball.

I don't know what you mean. They were in the Big East before all of the realignment. The went to bowl games then almost every year, including the Fiesta Bowl. They have a relatively new stadium capable of increasing capacity to 55000, which is plenty. They have one of the best practice facilities in the country. They will not magically get a slew of 4 and 5 star players, if that's what you mean by "upgrade." They need to be a reasonably good program, but they don't have to national champ program. Their problem was a bad hire as coach from which they are still recovering.

There is more of a question about how they were not invited to one of the expanding conferences even in the last expansion round when a program like Rutgers with an occasional decent football team and lousy everything else was asked to join a P5 conference. Louisville was invited to the ACC in a year when UConn upset them. All of this expansion has to do with TV revenues and markets and not so much to do with competitive ability. I think UConn's problem is that rightly or not, UConn has not been seen as in a major market, even though a program like BC isn't much of a TV draw.

 

[Woof 101]

Yes, it's not happening - but it's too bad football was ever upgraded. UConn would be in better position if they were like Villanova. In the Big East for all sports except football, and having a strong FCS football team. Unfortunately with the investment in the new stadium, football is not going to be downgraded. But it is also very unlikely to ever be strong.

No spitting match SH but your last sentence was EXACTLY what people were saying in the early 80's as we were consistent cellar dwellers in the old Big East. Many calling for the school to go back to The Yankee Conference.
Back then men & women often played double headers where if you had a ticket for the men's game you could watch the women who played first for free. Along comes Jim, awhile later along comes Geno. Neither got it done immediately. The football program was headed in the right direction and a hasty ill fated hire set it back to square one. In just his second season Bob has the team showing progress. It takes a bit more work to develop a program with 85 to 100 players involved than it does 14. If he continues to succeed and sticks around as Jim and Geno have we could be in for a good ride. Positivity my friend!

 

[Wally East]

Along comes Jim, awhile later along comes Geno

Just for the sake of being pedantic

Geno - '85
Jim - '86

 

[iamcbs]

I don't know what you mean. They were in the Big East before all of the realignment. The went to bowl games then almost every year, including the Fiesta Bowl. They have a relatively new stadium capable of increasing capacity to 55000, which is plenty. They have one of the best practice facilities in the country. They will not magically get a slew of 4 and 5 star players, if that's what you mean by "upgrade." They need to be a reasonably good program, but they don't have to national champ program. Their problem was a bad hire as coach from which they are still recovering.

There is more of a question about how they were not invited to one of the expanding conferences even in the last expansion round when a program like Rutgers with an occasional decent football team and lousy everything else was asked to join a P5 conference. Louisville was invited to the ACC in a year when UConn upset them. All of this expansion has to do with TV revenues and markets and not so much to do with competitive ability. I think UConn's problem is that rightly or not, UConn has not been seen as in a major market, even though a program like BC isn't much of a TV draw.

UConn wasn't even a D-1 CFB until 2002, before that they played in 1-AA so they don't have this great Big East history. The Big East was founded as and always will be a CBB conference. At 55,000 seats that stadium would be the second smallest in the B1G, ahead of only Northwestern. In that 2010 Fiesta Bowl they got drilled by Oklahoma. Conferences realign based on market and revenue, UConn offers neither. Rutgers was chosen by the B1G for its access to the NY-NJ TV market which is the nation's largest, whether it delivers is hard to ascertain, the B1G doled out more than $30 million to its member schools from revenue.

As I've reiterated many times on this medium, the straw that stirs the drink in college athletics is FOOTBALL and that ain't changin anytime soon. UConn for all its success in both MCBB and WCBB just doesn't bring enough history, tradition , or market share to be in a P5 conference. Grand Valley State and North Dakota State are both better programs than UConn, right now. The bad coach hire is a cop-out. Illinois kept Tim Beckman around for years as he destroyed that program, Kirk Ferentz at Iowa, until this season, Kevin Wilson at Indiana, James Franklin at PSU, the B1G is choke full of bad coaches right now. UConn just doesn't have the football gravitas to be in a P5 conference.

 

[cohenzone]

UConn wasn't even a D-1 CFB until 2002, before that they played in 1-AA so they don't have this great Big East history. The Big East was founded as and always will be a CBB conference. At 55,000 seats that stadium would be the second smallest in the B1G, ahead of only Northwestern. In that 2010 Fiesta Bowl they got drilled by Oklahoma. Conferences realign based on market and revenue, UConn offers neither. Rutgers was chosen by the B1G for its access to the NY-NJ TV market which is the nation's largest, whether it delivers is hard to ascertain, the B1G doled out more than $30 million to its member schools from revenue.

As I've reiterated many times on this medium, the straw that stirs the drink in college athletics is FOOTBALL and that ain't changin anytime soon. UConn for all its success in both MCBB and WCBB just doesn't bring enough history, tradition , or market share to be in a P5 conference. Grand Valley State and North Dakota State are both better programs than UConn, right now. The bad coach hire is a cop-out. Illinois kept Tim Beckman around for years as he destroyed that program, Kirk Ferentz at Iowa, until this season, Kevin Wilson at Indiana, James Franklin at PSU, the B1G is choke full of bad coaches right now. UConn just doesn't have the football gravitas to be in a P5 conference.

Nonsense. Rutgers was no better. But anyway, the stadium and overall facilities are fine. UConn dips into both the NY metro and part of the Boston TV markets. There is no way to "upgrade" that involves any more than they have done facility wise. 55000 is big enough. Winning is the only possible upgrade unless Bear Bryant magically appears at our doorstep demanding to be our coach. You don't just get a huge bunch of stud recruits, and few programs are stocked with 4 and 5 star guys anyway. The issue with the coach is that it was step backward when we couldn't afford it, precisely because we don't have a long history. But Rutgers. Louisville and Syracuse in particular and BC as well came out of the Big East. The fact that is was a hoops conference first doesn't change the fact that it was a decent FB conference with a bunch of teams that were obviously coveted by the ACC, SEC and B1G. And Rutgers, with lesser facilities and no better football pedigree was picked obviously for perceptions about TV revenues. UConn is certainly not out of the picture for future conference shifts. Of course, there is always the "be careful what you wish for" thing. eg. BC.

 

[Carnac]

I've been saying the same thing this article says, on board every since I've been a member. Unless and until UConn significantly upgrades its Football Program it will never be in a P5 conference no matter how many Natty's the school wins in Basketball.

If a highly competitive football program is the "golden fleece" that turns the heads of P-5 college presidents, and buys their way in to a major conference, then the powers that be at UConn need to make it happen. UConn made some critical mistakes in the past that can't be undone. The huskies need to pull in all of their "markers", favors, political influence, and sympathetic favor it can muster, and regroup to make it happen.

It can happen - Look at the turn-a-round the South Carolina Gamecocks made to their fledgling football ball program simply by committing the resources, to hire a high profile coach with a resume' and history of winning (Steve Spurrier) on a Division-1 national stage. Over several years, Spurrier restored that program to a national power. If the current head coach is believed to be the chosen one, so be it. The sands in the hour glass grow smaller with each passing day. Ask not for whom the bell tolls...............

How bad do you want it.? How much time, effort, resolve and capital are you willing to invest in a venture of this nature? Are you willing to take and embrace the Malcolm X approach?.........."By any means necessary"? If not, UConn, as the article mentioned, will remain on the outside looking in for years to come.

 

[EricLA]

What's even more depressing for UCONN is the reality of the economy for UCONN. Because we are in such a lower echelon conference, our revenues are MUCH lower and now our athletics department runs a pretty hefty deficit. The President needs to take money out of the general fund for UCONN to keep the athletics programs afloat. How much longer can that continue? The logical thing to do would be to downgrade football and re-join the BE for the rest of sports.

 

[Carnac]

What's even more depressing for UCONN is the reality of the economy for UCONN. Because we are in such a lower echelon conference, our revenues are MUCH lower and now our athletics department runs a pretty hefty deficit. The President needs to take money out of the general fund for UCONN to keep the athletics programs afloat. How much longer can that continue? The logical thing to do would be to downgrade football and re-join the BE for the rest of sports.

THAT would be the best direction to take fiscally speaking, because at this rate (unless another viable option presents itself), at some point the well will run dry. Eric, we both know it would not be the most popular way to go. The natives would become extremely irate and agitated, and would surely begin to reach for their spears and other assorted weapons.

That's a hard decision to make. I remember when the University of the Pacific (Stockton, Ca/Big West Conf at that time in 1993) decided to terminate it's football program. It was not a decision that was received warmly by the masses. Alumni, long time boosters and supporters were furious. Feelings were hurt, egos were bruised. Some even felt betrayed.

 

[EricLA]

THAT would be the best direction to take fiscally speaking, because at this rate (unless another viable option presents itself), at some point the well will run dry. Eric, we both know it would not be the most popular way to go. The natives would become extremely irate and agitated, and would surely begin to reach for their spears and other assorted weapons.

That's a hard decision to make. I remember when the University of the Pacific (Stockton, Ca/Big West Conf at that time in 1993) decided to terminate it's football program. It was not a decision that was received warmly by the masses. Alumni, long time boosters and supporters were furious. Feelings were hurt, egos were bruised. Some even felt betrayed.

Ttoally agree. I should have edited my post - it's not the direction I want to go, nor is it something I would at all be happy about, but from a financial perspective, unless something changes, it's the fiscal reality that UCONN is facing going forward. I don't envy Herbst or the new AD at all.

I don't see us getting into any P5 unless our stadium is upgraded to hold over 50,000 bodies, and until we start filling it up. Problem is that won't happen in the American (filling it up). Even if we are super successful in our league, unless we get big name teams, even (gasp) BCU or Syracuse to come to the Rent to play, we probably won't ever average much over 33-35,000 in attendance. And that's 2-3 years down the road. I just don't know. I"m praying though, that's for sure!!

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

If a highly competitive football program is the "golden fleece" that turns the heads of P-5 college presidents, and buys their way in to a major conference, then the powers that be at UConn need to make it happen. UConn made some critical mistakes in the past that can't be undone. The huskies need to pull in all of their "markers", favors, political influence, and sympathetic favor it can muster, and regroup to make it happen.

It can happen - Look at the turn-a-round the South Carolina Gamecocks made to their fledgling football ball program simply by committing the resources, to hire a high profile coach with a resume' and history of winning (Steve Spurrier) on a Division-1 national stage. Over several years, Spurrier restored that program to a national power. If the current head coach is believed to be the chosen one, so be it. The sands in the hour glass grow smaller with each passing day. Ask not for whom the bell tolls.....

How bad do you want it.? How much time, effort, resolve and capital are you willing to invest in a venture of this nature? Are you willing to take and embrace the Malcolm X approach?....."By any means necessary"? If not, UConn, as the article mentioned, will remain on the outside looking in for years to come.

I don't really see that as a reasonable comparison - even when the Gamecocks were awful in football, in the late 90's, we still had a large fan base and averaged in the neighborhood of 75,000 per game. I think what's hurting you is that your football program can't make inroads into the NYC and Boston TV markets because you don't have the same kind of football following that you do in basketball. When the SEC added USC in the early 90's we brought them all of the South Carolina TV markets plus Charlotte, Asheville and Wilmington in North Carolina. It's really all about money. If you get in the Big 12 the travel expenses will be enormous. The ACC is your best bet, IMO.

 

[Woof 101]

Just for the sake of being pedantic

Geno - '85
Jim - '86

OUCH ! Wow, I like that there pedantic thing. I basically meant the order of the success of the programs but I also respect your penchant for accuracy. My bad and thanks for a new word as my vocabulary is weak, that and I will never be able to post in a flash!

 

[Jimbo]

I don't really see that as a reasonable comparison - even when the Gamecocks were awful in football, in the late 90's, we still had a large fan base and averaged in the neighborhood of 75,000 per game. I think what's hurting you is that your football program can't make inroads into the NYC and Boston TV markets because you don't have the same kind of football following that you do in basketball. When the SEC added USC in the early 90's we brought them all of the South Carolina TV markets plus Charlotte, Asheville and Wilmington in North Carolina. It's really all about money. If you get in the Big 12 the travel expenses will be enormous. The ACC is your best bet, IMO.

The only problem is that there's no real indication that the ACC plans to expand again anytime soon, whereas there are real rumblings that the Big 12 might (not that I'm predicting anything, by any means). And if a P5 invitation actually comes, UConn would be crazy not to accept it no matter which conference it's from. I also tend to think the potential Big 12 travel concerns are a little overblown. Not ideal, certainly, but still not that much more ridiculous logistically than what we're dealing with now in the AAC, and at least there'd be a lot more revenue coming in to help defray the costs.

I do agree with your general point that the comparison between South Carolina's resurgence and UConn's present situation is far from perfect. But as far as TV markets' effect on conference realignment, the number of cable boxes in a market tends to carry more weight than the number of eyeballs actually watching games. If the Big 12 wants to get a conference network off the ground, which Oklahoma's president is strongly pushing for, UConn offers an entry into the New York market (plus Hartford/New Haven, plus maybe kinda Boston) that would expand the Big 12's TV footprint in a way that no other expansion candidate can match. If the Big 12/ESPN can then convince enough northeastern cable operators to carry a Big 12 network, then the subscription fees will come regardless of whether people actually watch or not.

Now, maybe that's all easier said than done, but if one wanted to make a case for UConn receiving a P5 invite sooner rather than later, I think it would look something like that. I think we've proven over our brief history as a Division I-A/FBS football program that we can be competent when we don't have an incompetent coach—we even beat South Carolina in a bowl game once!—and thankfully we're back on the upswing now, but the truth is that no P5 conference is likely to invite us anytime soon based solely on our football accomplishments. It's our geographic location that brings unique value to a conference, not in terms of proximity to rivals or anything else sports-related, but because our state contains a decent-sized chunk of the nation's largest TV market and because so many other cable subscribers reside within an hour or two of our campus.

There are numerous detailed discussions along these lines on the conference realignment board, for anyone who's really interested in digging deep into this subject.

 

[HoopsFan21]

I don't really see that as a reasonable comparison - even when the Gamecocks were awful in football, in the late 90's, we still had a large fan base and averaged in the neighborhood of 75,000 per game. I think what's hurting you is that your football program can't make inroads into the NYC and Boston TV markets because you don't have the same kind of football following that you do in basketball. When the SEC added USC in the early 90's we brought them all of the South Carolina TV markets plus Charlotte, Asheville and Wilmington in North Carolina. It's really all about money. If you get in the Big 12 the travel expenses will be enormous. The ACC is your best bet, IMO.

So is it about TV or is it about football or academics or what? I can't keep up because the qualifications seem to change every time. As far as TV markets goes, UConn itself resides in what the #25 or #30 media market? That alone makes them a better TV team than half the P5. Never mind 1/3 of the state is part of the NYC DMA, and you also would get a sliver of the Boston DMA (that's two top 10 markets for those keeping track), plus a bunch of other smaller regional ones. UConn TV wise is probably better than 2/3 of the P5 right now, and it brings a better demographic (read wealthy) for advertising. No college team will ever own NYC. It's just not an environment conducive to the whole college football thing like it is down south, and it never will be. We're not great at football, but we're a new program at this level and we showed progress out of the gate, and are starting to get back on track under Diaco. How many P5 schools went to a BCS bowl? UConn went to one in its infancy as a program. Academically, UConn is what a top 20 public school now? Better than half the schools in the B1G which prides itself on academic prestige. On top of all that, UConn also is the most dominating program in the NCAA's biggest sports event of the year, the NCAA basketball tournaments, having won 14 titles in the last 20 years. If only conferences could trade up. I'm betting you behind closed doors the upper echelon of 20 or so schools wishes they could just write a check and cut the dead weight loose and make room for bigger and better schools. That's really the problem now is there are only a finite number of seats at the big boy table, and at least half of them are taken by schools that have no business sitting there in the first place but get to because they are grandfathered in. I guess when it comes to athletics, most P5 schools are just happy to fill their bank accounts with TV money while we fill our trophy case with trophies.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

So is it about TV or is it about football or academics or what? I can't keep up because the qualifications seem to change every time. As far as TV markets goes, UConn itself resides in what the #25 or #30 media market? That alone makes them a better TV team than half the P5. Never mind 1/3 of the state is part of the NYC DMA, and you also would get a sliver of the Boston DMA (that's two top 10 markets for those keeping track), plus a bunch of other smaller regional ones. UConn TV wise is probably better than 2/3 of the P5 right now, and it brings a better demographic (read wealthy) for advertising. No college team will ever own NYC. It's just not an environment conducive to the whole college football thing like it is down south, and it never will be. We're not great at football, but we're a new program at this level and we showed progress out of the gate, and are starting to get back on track under Diaco. How many P5 schools went to a BCS bowl? UConn went to one in its infancy as a program. Academically, UConn is what a top 20 public school now? Better than half the schools in the B1G which prides itself on academic prestige. On top of all that, UConn also is the most dominating program in the NCAA's biggest sports event of the year, the NCAA basketball tournaments, having won 14 titles in the last 20 years. If only conferences could trade up. I'm betting you behind closed doors the upper echelon of 20 or so schools wishes they could just write a check and cut the dead weight loose and make room for bigger and better schools. That's really the problem now is there are only a finite number of seats at the big boy table, and at least half of them are taken by schools that have no business sitting there in the first place but get to because they are grandfathered in. I guess when it comes to athletics, most P5 schools are just happy to fill their bank accounts with TV money while we fill our trophy case with trophies.

I don't doubt your proximity to those markets, but does UCONN FB have enough following to make a dent?

 

[HoopsFan21]

I don't doubt your proximity to those markets, but does UCONN FB have enough following to make a dent?

Does it matter? If the main qualification to be accepted into a P5 conference is delivering NYC, then no one should ever be invited again because no team will deliver that market. It simply is not a college sports town and never will be. Not even Jim Delaney will be able to turn NYC no matter how hard he tries. Ask 100 people on the subway what the B1G is. Maybe a few will know and that's about it. Since the NYC TV market seems to be the only way into a P5, maybe some conference can pick up St. John's, NYU, Bronx Community College, or even Yeshiva since they are located within the NYC footprint. If you're argument is about TV markets generally, UConn already delivers more TVs than most of the P5 schools because it is in the 30th largest media market. Maybe CT doesn't have as large a slice of the NYC DMA as NJ, but it still has a piece of it, and has plenty of pull in surrounding markets.