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More hockey realignment?

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I think what Notre Dame is finding, in Hockey East, is that this East Coast move doesn't bring them the same breadth of markets that the ACC or the Old Big East or Old New Big East had and so "East Coast access" is not as bountiful.

To wit, 6 of the 11 other HEA teams are sandwiched in the Boston media market (BC, BU, UNH, UML, Northeastern and Merrimack), and the only other potential needle-movers are Hartford-New Haven and Providence. Burlington, Springfield and Bangor aren't much to speak of. No access to NY, Philly or DC. Of course, you won't find home teams in those markets in hockey anyway.

By contrast: Boston, Providence, Hartford-New Haven, New York, Syracuse, Philadelphia, DC, Pittsburgh, Miami in the OBE; subtract Boston and Miami but add Cincy, Louisville, Chicago, Milwaukee, and Tampa for the ONBE; the ACC gives Boston, Syracuse, some New York, Pittsburgh, DC, Louisville, Raleigh-Durham, Atlanta, Miami, and presence in Charlotte, Richmond, Norfolk, Orlando and Tampa.
Hockey isn't about markets, that's not what ND is upset with. It's the travel schedule, a perceived bias among the conference towards the schools in New England as opposed to them, that they have to fly multiple times a year where everyone else only does once. Not to mention they're just culturally not a fit within the HE mold. TV markets are irrelevant in hockey though.
 
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Hockey isn't about markets, that's not what ND is upset with. It's the travel schedule, a perceived bias among the conference towards the schools in New England as opposed to them, that they have to fly multiple times a year where everyone else only does once. Not to mention they're just culturally not a fit within the HE mold. TV markets are irrelevant in hockey though.

It's not only TV I'm speaking of here. It's alumni and local fans too, which is held up to be a big reason why ND seeks an East Coast presence (and why the travel wasn't wholly unpalatable in the abstract).

I have a sneaking suspicion that NDs local fans aren't responding as well as they thought to the teams coming into Compton. Another thing that could stand up to too much travel.

I still think too much is being made of it now. I don't believe ND is so unhappy they're going to make a change after one year.
 
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Bottom line, the BIG, for now, lost out in terms of competition with this hockey realignment. The best all-time hockey conference went south (WCHA) and rapidly. The NCHC, with many former WCHA powers, already sent two to a Frozen Four (Nebraska-Omaha and UND) while the BIG only had Minnesota in the tourney where they lost in the first round. Sure Minnesota made the CG last year, but the BIG is really awful right now as decades of tradition got turned upside down. Minnesota and Wisconsin no longer have two series a year vs the likes of UND, Duluth, St. Cloud, Denver, Colorado College and Neb Omaha - all of these opponents closer than PSU & OSU in terms of geography. OSU isn't even the marquee hockey program in Ohio, often third best in the state. PSU is still too new and has to compete with Hockey East for recruits. If I was a hockey star in the Northeast, I would barely notice PSU because their rivalries are too far away.

Hockey East is the biggest winner in conference realignment, no traditions were remotely altered. The new NCHC actually preserved far more WCHA history than the new BIG as is kept far more geographical rivalries intact.

It will be a while before the BIG, esp the blue bloods, bounce back. Minnesota will stay the course due to in-state talent, but Michigan and MSU will struggle to re-establish recruiting trails. Wisky is and for a while.
 
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Bottom line, the BIG, for now, lost out in terms of competition with this hockey realignment. The best all-time hockey conference went south (WCHA) and rapidly. The NCHC, with many former WCHA powers, already sent two to a Frozen Four (Nebraska-Omaha and UND) while the BIG only had Minnesota in the tourney where they lost in the first round. Sure Minnesota made the CG last year, but the BIG is really awful right now as decades of tradition got turned upside down. Minnesota and Wisconsin no longer have two series a year vs the likes of UND, Duluth, St. Cloud, Denver, Colorado College and Neb Omaha - all of these opponents closer than PSU & OSU in terms of geography. OSU isn't even the marquee hockey program in Ohio, often third best in the state. PSU is still too new and has to compete with Hockey East for recruits. If I was a hockey star in the Northeast, I would barely notice PSU because their rivalries are too far away.

Hockey East is the biggest winner in conference realignment, no traditions were remotely altered. The new NCHC actually preserved far more WCHA history than the new BIG as is kept far more geographical rivalries intact.

It will be a while before the BIG, esp the blue bloods, bounce back. Minnesota will stay the course due to in-state talent, but Michigan and MSU will struggle to re-establish recruiting trails. Wisky is and for a while.

As a fan of the former Big East it's easy to relate to your post yet it's hard to feel any sympathy, especially when you consider that the B1G was one of the primary catalysts of the demise outlined above.
 
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Hockey isn't about markets, that's not what ND is upset with. It's the travel schedule, a perceived bias among the conference towards the schools in New England as opposed to them, that they have to fly multiple times a year where everyone else only does once. Not to mention they're just culturally not a fit within the HE mold. TV markets are irrelevant in hockey though.

ND's other sports have always traveled a great distance, even when in the Big East. Don't forget in 1995, Miami was in the Big East, then later USF was in the conference.

So, back then, the Big East stretched from Boston to Miami.

Now, ND's other non-revenue sports are in the ACC which requires them to travel from Boston to Miami.

So, ND's soccer and volleyball teams (to name a few non-revenue sports) have traveled to Boston, Miami and everywhere in between since 1995.

Travel is not a big issue for ND. Attendance at ND hockey games is not a problem.

http://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/division-i-men/2014-2015/

Compton holds 5,000. Last season, ND averaged 4,479 or 89.2 % of capacity.

Hockey East is the best hockey conference out there and allows ND to have its own hockey TV deal plus participate in the league TV deal.

Why leave? It makes no sense to think that ND is going elsewhere.
 
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The six B1G hockey schools get $2 million each in BTN revenues each year from the TV rights to hockey games being broadcast on BTN. I don't think they are complaining about realignment.

http://www.buckys5thquarter.com/2013/4/29/4283628/big-ten-hockey-payout-tv-contract

I think Minnesota is. BTN money or not, the Gophers aren't happy with having to diminish their relationships with Minny-Duluth, St. Cloud, Mankato or Bemidji (or for that matter, North Dakota, Denver or CC either).

OK, maybe not actively complaining, but that's mostly because there's not a whole lot they can do about it.
 
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I think Minnesota is. BTN money or not, the Gophers aren't happy with having to diminish their relationships with Minny-Duluth, St. Cloud, Mankato or Bemidji (or for that matter, North Dakota, Denver or CC either).

OK, maybe not actively complaining, but that's mostly because there's not a whole lot they can do about it.

No, there's a lot of active complaining. It was a difficult and unpopular choice for the U but it was important for Minnesota to step up and support the long term conference vision even if it causes some short term pain. It'll pass.
 
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No, there's a lot of active complaining. It was a difficult and unpopular choice for the U but it was important for Minnesota to step up and support the long term conference vision even if it causes some short term pain. It'll pass.

and the pain will be reduced further if Northwestern and/or Nebraska add hockey in the future.
 
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my dream big ten hockey scenario:

Add North Dakota as an affiliate,
Add Connecticut as a full member,
Convince Illinois and Rutgers to go D1.

Each team plays a series against every other team, and an additional series against two rivals, ensuring a home and home against two main rivals.

North Dakota - Minnesota, Wisconsin
Minnesota - North Dakota, Wisconsin
Wisconsin - Minnesota, North Dakota
Illinois - Michigan State, Ohio State
Michigan State - Illinois, Michigan
Michigan - Michigan State, Ohio State
Ohio State - Illinois, Michigan
Penn State - Connecticut, Rutgers
Rutgers - Connecticut, Penn State
Connecticut - Penn State, Rutgers
 
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Travel is not a big issue for ND. Attendance at ND hockey games is not a problem.

http://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/division-i-men/2014-2015/

Compton holds 5,000. Last season, ND averaged 4,479 or 89.2 % of capacity.

Hockey East is the best hockey conference out there and allows ND to have its own hockey TV deal plus participate in the league TV deal.

Why leave? It makes no sense to think that ND is going elsewhere.

as a hockey east fan, please leave

then HE can fold UMass and we get back to 10 teams
 
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my dream big ten hockey scenario:

Add North Dakota as an affiliate,
Add Connecticut as a full member,
Convince Illinois and Rutgers to go D1.

One correction, Northwestern is likely to add hockey before Illinois as the state of Illinois has a massive budget issue on its hands .
 
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One correction, Northwestern is likely to add hockey before Illinois as the state of Illinois has a massive budget issue on its hands .

I disagree. Although Northwestern is in a huge hockey city with lots of wealth, they have trouble supporting their existing sports and facilities. Their current club hockey is ACHA DII vs. Illinois' DI club team which actually is quite successful and has decent fan support. (Rutgers and Indiana also have DI club teams). There have also been rumors of the Jimmy John's founder helping finance a move to DI, similar to how PSU and ASU made the jumps. Illinois had DI Varsity hockey previously but dropped at an unfortunate time prior to the sport's huge increase in popularity during the past decade. There is history, support, and rumored financial contributors there.

Here is an article about Northwestern's hockey potential:
http://www.insidenu.com/2011/3/22/2066747/northwestern-varsity-ice-hockey

Links regarding Illinois and Jimmy John's:
http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showthread.php?p=501400

http://frankthetank.me/2015/03/18/m...-talk-with-arizona-state-and-new-tv-contract/
 
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I disagree. Although Northwestern is in a huge hockey city with lots of wealth, they have trouble supporting their existing sports and facilities. Their current club hockey is ACHA DII vs. Illinois' DI club team which actually is quite successful and has decent fan support. (Rutgers and Indiana also have DI club teams). There have also been rumors of the Jimmy John's founder helping finance a move to DI, similar to how PSU and ASU made the jumps. Illinois had DI Varsity hockey previously but dropped at an unfortunate time prior to the sport's huge increase in popularity during the past decade. There is history, support, and rumored financial contributors there.

Here is an article about Northwestern's hockey potential:
http://www.insidenu.com/2011/3/22/2066747/northwestern-varsity-ice-hockey

Links regarding Illinois and Jimmy John's:
http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showthread.php?p=501400

http://frankthetank.me/2015/03/18/march-madness-big-ten-rundown-hockey-expansion-talk-with-arizona-state-and-new-tv-contract/

My feedback was based on finances only. If Illinois can find a PSU level benefactor for hockey, then by all means they can add it. Without such, I just do not see the state ponying up the money for a new sports program in light of everything going on in the state.
 
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My feedback was based on finances only. If Illinois can find a PSU level benefactor for hockey, then by all means they can add it. Without such, I just do not see the state ponying up the money for a new sports program in light of everything going on in the state.

I agree that the next programs will come from schools who's athletic departments are financially strong. Iowa is a definite possibility IMO, and if not for Omaha, UNL would likely have already made the push for a team. RU's AD is a total quagmire. They don't seem to have any well heeled boosters willing to plunk down the capital necessary to get an enterprise like Hockey off the ground.
 
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Whether or not the B1G adds other current members, adding North Dakota as an affiliate would be an absolute slam dunk. It's essentially adding Kentucky basketball to your conference.
 
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Whether or not the B1G adds other current members, adding North Dakota as an affiliate would be an absolute slam dunk. It's essentially adding Kentucky basketball to your conference.

I'm curious how UND would respond to an invite--I think they'd pass but I don't know. It's relatively easy for the fan base to travel now, but the B1G is another level of travel for fans.
 
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I'm curious how UND would respond to an invite--I think they'd pass but I don't know. It's relatively easy for the fan base to travel now, but the B1G is another level of travel for fans.
They would accept before the call was made. Guaranteed. They hate the NCHC. A chance to play the Gophers again every year, are you kidding me? That alone would sell them. Not to mention existing rivalries with Wisconsin and Michigan? They're already traveling to Colorado twice, Ohio, Nebraska, and Michigan, it would end up being roughly the same amount of travel. Trade games against Western Michigan, Nebraska-Omaha, Minnesota-Duluth, and Miami of Ohio for Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Michigan State? Sold.

Their fans are EVERYWHERE, so that would be a major plus for the B1G Network. I would put it at a higher than 50/50 shot that UND is an affiliate B1G Hockey member by 2020. Goes even higher if ASU decides to join the B1G.
 
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As a fan of the former Big East it's easy to relate to your post yet it's hard to feel any sympathy, especially when you consider that the B1G was one of the primary catalysts of the demise outlined above.

Loud and clear, but the Big East does not have the WCHA's hardware . Yes I realize there's more competition in d1 basketball - but the WCHA will likely hold the record for most NCs, actual membership, for many more years - despite being a shell of its former self.
 
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The six B1G hockey schools get $2 million each in BTN revenues each year from the TV rights to hockey games being broadcast on BTN. I don't think they are complaining about realignment.

http://www.buckys5thquarter.com/2013/4/29/4283628/big-ten-hockey-payout-tv-contract

God, money doesn't buy championships as much as you think. BIG Hockey is awful right now because a school like OSU will take many years and massive culture change to do its part - the Bucks are most often the third best hockey program in Ohio. This aint football.

I prefer top notch competition and better, closer rivalries in hockey.
 
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With BTN, top hockey players will want to sign with a B1G team so their families can watch them play on TV. No other conference offers that much television exposure.
 
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They would accept before the call was made. Guaranteed. They hate the NCHC. A chance to play the Gophers again every year, are you kidding me? That alone would sell them. Not to mention existing rivalries with Wisconsin and Michigan? They're already traveling to Colorado twice, Ohio, Nebraska, and Michigan, it would end up being roughly the same amount of travel. Trade games against Western Michigan, Nebraska-Omaha, Minnesota-Duluth, and Miami of Ohio for Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Michigan State? Sold.

Their fans are EVERYWHERE, so that would be a major plus for the B1G Network. I would put it at a higher than 50/50 shot that UND is an affiliate B1G Hockey member by 2020. Goes even higher if ASU decides to join the B1G.

Plus $2MM+ per year from the BTN to a school like UND is a huge chunk of money to their Athletic Dept.

$2MM to OSU or Michigan is a drop in the bucket but UND would say yes before Delany got done asking the question
 

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God, money doesn't buy championships as much as you think. BIG Hockey is awful right now because a school like OSU will take many years and massive culture change to do its part - the Bucks are most often the third best hockey program in Ohio. This aint football.

I prefer top notch competition and better, closer rivalries in hockey.

Yup, but as a fan, it is very nice to be able to watch them on TV.

Big10 hockey needs a shot in the arm of talented programs. We saw what happens when teams have a down year, the product is poor. I'm afraid that Michigan will be down until Red Berenson retires. MSU has been down as of late and I have no clue what was Wisconsin's problem this year.

I would love to have an Eastern and Western division with several East coast powers. I know it's a pipe dream, but a conference that looked like this would be great:

East: UConn, BC, BU, Cornell, PSU, OSU
West: Michigan, MSU, Minnesota, Wisconsin, North Dakota, Miami Of Ohio/Denver

That would a fun conference to watch. I know it will never happen, but I can dream, can't I?
 
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