Mitch Vingle (WV Gazette): A re-set of the Big 12 expansion situation

[UConn Dan]

Mitch Vingle: A re-set of the Big 12 expansion situation

Let's hope Big 12 gets a network...somehow... I still think even if they don't we still bring the most value and the potential for a future network one day. Why leave the most valuable school left on the table?

From the article:

...there’s no question the league is still moving in the direction of expansion. Cautiously.

According to the sources, some in the Big 12 office like the prospect of bringing in Cincinnati and Houston, although those touting the latter have almost given up.

There is also “some sentiment” to bring in Memphis. “At the end of the day though,” said one source, “I still think Connecticut gets in.”

Another source said not to leave out BYU, that the Cougars remain a strong candidate.

As I’ve written in the past, Connecticut makes sense on many levels. (“Check reports from writers with credible sources,” one said. “They always include Connecticut.”) Some have tried to downplay the Huskies’ possible impact by pointing to Rutgers and the Big Ten. The working theory is neither can really deliver the New York television market.

One source pointed out, however, one shouldn’t just ask what Connecticut can do for the Big 12, but what the Big 12 can do for Connecticut. Also, understand UConn’s administration is not as shaky as that of Rutgers. Given the chance, maybe the Huskies can pick up the football and run with it. (We’ve all seen what they can do with a basketball.) If the Big 12 moves forward on a league network, a source said, Connecticut is a “must.” If the league gives up on a network, a school like Memphis is back in the picture.

 

[Kgun7]

Mitch Vingle: A re-set of the Big 12 expansion situation

Let's hope Big 12 gets a network...somehow... I still think even if they don't we still bring the most value and the potential for a future network one day. Why leave the most valuable school left on the table?

From the article:

...there’s no question the league is still moving in the direction of expansion. Cautiously.

According to the sources, some in the Big 12 office like the prospect of bringing in Cincinnati and Houston, although those touting the latter have almost given up.

There is also “some sentiment” to bring in Memphis. “At the end of the day though,” said one source, “I still think Connecticut gets in.”

Another source said not to leave out BYU, that the Cougars remain a strong candidate.

As I’ve written in the past, Connecticut makes sense on many levels. (“Check reports from writers with credible sources,” one said. “They always include Connecticut.”) Some have tried to downplay the Huskies’ possible impact by pointing to Rutgers and the Big Ten. The working theory is neither can really deliver the New York television market.

One source pointed out, however, one shouldn’t just ask what Connecticut can do for the Big 12, but what the Big 12 can do for Connecticut. Also, understand UConn’s administration is not as shaky as that of Rutgers. Given the chance, maybe the Huskies can pick up the football and run with it. (We’ve all seen what they can do with a basketball.) If the Big 12 moves forward on a league network, a source said, Connecticut is a “must.” If the league gives up on a network, a school like Memphis is back in the picture.

Almost everything makes sense until that last sentence. If there is no network ... there won't be any expansion. The only viable additions are the ones that help bring them a network. Does Memphis help bring them a network?

 

[UConn Dan]

Almost everything makes sense until that last sentence. If there is no network ... there won't be any expansion. The only viable additions are the ones that help bring them a network. Does Memphis help bring them a network?

Expansion with no network does bring them 10-15% better chance of getting a team into the College Football Playoff. I'm not sure how much that is worth a dollar level, but it would likely be a considering factor. Their TV deal is structured so that they can add two teams with the same payout, and adding the Conference Championship game will bring additional TV and sponsorship monies. The only thing that gets diluted would be the bowl payout money -- not sure if a boost of 10-15% in playoff appearances will offset that though, but someone is doing the math.

 

[mike012]

I agree unless they are going with a network what is the point. Just stay at 10 and hold your conference title game that way. Unless Memphis is paying the Big 12 20 million a year to join it. Memphis would lose to Boise St in my opinion. Academics are about the same, which is non existent basically at both Schools. Boise state has better football. Market wise Memphis is a distant 3rd in there state while Boise is the only show in town. Though it has basically no market to speak of.

 

[junglehusky]

"If the league gives up on a network" ... translation: if Texas decides to keep LHN for itself but thinks it can appease OU for the intermediate term, i.e. until the mid 2020's when the next round of GORs expire. UT would be playing the long game to allow them and OU to leave, while neither school bears 100% of the blame for the B12 basically collapsing.

 

[justgoplay]

Mitch Vingle: A re-set of the Big 12 expansion situation

Let's hope Big 12 gets a network...somehow... I still think even if they don't we still bring the most value and the potential for a future network one day. Why leave the most valuable school left on the table?

From the article:

...there’s no question the league is still moving in the direction of expansion. Cautiously.

According to the sources, some in the Big 12 office like the prospect of bringing in Cincinnati and Houston, although those touting the latter have almost given up.

There is also “some sentiment” to bring in Memphis. “At the end of the day though,” said one source, “I still think Connecticut gets in.”

Another source said not to leave out BYU, that the Cougars remain a strong candidate.

As I’ve written in the past, Connecticut makes sense on many levels. (“Check reports from writers with credible sources,” one said. “They always include Connecticut.”) Some have tried to downplay the Huskies’ possible impact by pointing to Rutgers and the Big Ten. The working theory is neither can really deliver the New York television market.

One source pointed out, however, one shouldn’t just ask what Connecticut can do for the Big 12, but what the Big 12 can do for Connecticut. Also, understand UConn’s administration is not as shaky as that of Rutgers. Given the chance, maybe the Huskies can pick up the football and run with it. (We’ve all seen what they can do with a basketball.) If the Big 12 moves forward on a league network, a source said, Connecticut is a “must.” If the league gives up on a network, a school like Memphis is back in the picture.

The two best adds to the BIG12 are Cincinnati and UCONN. This is so simple it is almost embarrassing to hear all this debate....As a Cincy guy, the only thing more frustrating than being shut out of P5 money is hearing folks from places like Morgantown or Lubbuck or Ames "freakin" Iowa declaring we are not worthy.....Those mouth breathers in Morgantown are especially delusional. We are more than equal to them on the field or court. Our media market, academics, enrollment, acceptance rate, research dollars, and endowment absolutely dwarfs WVU, but apparently Cincinnati or UCONN are not worthy. OU or Texas being condescending is one thing, the rest of these clowns being condescending kinda' pisses you off....

 

[junglehusky]

The two best adds to the BIG12 are Cincinnati and UCONN. This is so simple it is almost embarrassing to hear all this debate....As a Cincy guy, the only thing more frustrating than being shut out of P5 money is hearing folks from places like Morgantown or Lubbuck or Ames "freakin" Iowa declaring we are not worthy.....Those mouth breathers in Morgantown are especially delusional. We are more than equal to them on the field or court. Our media market, academics, enrollment, acceptance rate, research dollars, and endowment absolutely dwarfs WVU, but apparently Cincinnati or UCONN are not worthy. OU or Texas being condescending is one thing, the rest of these clowns being condescending kinda' pisses you off....

Well from Vingle's article and a few others (including Flugar's tweets), there are at least some rational minded people in the B12 who are considering factors beyond just football. It'll come down to whether those people will be able to convince the football centric types and Texas with their ego and independent streak to weight all those factors according to the same formula. Having Bellavequia (sp?) come in should help. Even then, it'll take a lot of work to get all the TV stuff sorted out.

 

[dayooper]

Well from Vingle's article and a few others (including Flugar's tweets), there are at least some rational minded people in the B12 who are considering factors beyond just football. It'll come down to whether those people will be able to convince the football centric types and Texas with their ego and independent streak to weight all those factors according to the same formula. Having Bellavequia (sp?) come in should help. Even then, it'll take a lot of work to get all the TV stuff sorted out.

We keep hearing from both sides of the story. The OU/WVU side (including Flug's "OU contact") that expansion and a conference network are just around the bend. Yet every article and "insider" from UT's side is contrary to that. UT has the power for the network, but also the most to lose from giving up their LHN. Without a network, the benefits of expansion become minamized.

I want like hell for you all to get into a P5 conference. I most definitely want it to be the Big10. But if you can get into the ACC, Big12 or even the SEC, I will be happy for you as well. I just don't think it will be the Big12. I have thought for a long time that the Big12 was a dead conference walking and the public squabbling that has taken place has just validated the issues to me. UConn most definitely belongs in a major conference over any other G5 school and about a third of the P5 schools as well.

 

[djct1999]

and I repeat, "If the Big 12 moves forward on a league network, a source said, Connecticut is a “must.” Enough said.

 

[Dooley]

The B12 has 3 options:

1. don't expand and create a Championship Game with 10 teams. Sit tight, wait for UT/OU/KU to bolt. The little fish should use this time to update their CR resumes (and attach themselves firmly at the hip of Texas or Oklahoma).

2. Expand with the bare minimum 2 teams to create even, easy scheduling for a Championship Game. No network. Just add 2 football programs and hope for the best long-term. Texas keeps their LHN but Oklahoma most certainly bolts and Kansas won't be far behind. Little fish should use this time to update their CR resumes and attach themselves to OU and KU...and ultimately Texas after the league dissolves.

3. Expand with a network in mind. Long term power conference security. The B12 fancies itself as the "3rd most powerful" power conference. Without expansion and a network, that is so far from the truth. With a network, they can talk. Get a Champ Game even scheduling, launch a network, and see how the ACC crumbles apart to pick off next best (I think some combo of FSU, Clemson, Louisville, Miami, Cuse/Pitt). Now you're playing with the big boys.


There is no question that UConn is a "must" if #3 is the goal. Our northeast r1vals haven't done us any favors as P5 members. They look at UConn being in the northeast and say "well BC/RU/Cuse sahq, so does UConn". The article does hint, ever so slightly, that UConn is not a hot sports mess ("Look at basketball") and just might even become a very good football program...you know, the trajectory we were on before Paul Pasqualoni.

 

[upstater]

Even Boren says expansion and CG and network are all part of the same 3 legged table. You can't eliminate one element.

A CG with 10 is just asking for it. You're going to lose your playoff candidate by doing that. Round robin + CG makes no sense.

Without a network, you are subsidizing Memphis in exchange for a CG and 10% increase in chances for playoffs. Not worth it.

Either scenario puts you back where you are, and that is eventual breakup.

However, you might as well do it if you know it's falling apart anyway, just on the 1% chance that Memphis overtakes Tennessee.

 

[noeynox]

Uconn has to be #11, for them if they want to have a network.

Uconn is also the only current G5 school that could conceivably end up in another P5 conference in time. The likes of Memphis have no shot at the any other league. Maybe Houston could one day get in the Pac12 but I doubt it. Byu is great program, but I doubt they get in anywhere else ever. Cincinnati maybe has outside shot at the ACC.

If I'm the Big12 grab uconn and Cincy first, establish those as the outer points of your conference and then you could go back and fill in with Memphis and the like if the need arises.

 

[jostar1]

There was another story in that paper. With a similar angle to the Texas booster who questioned why one would want to share money and thus elevate a G5 school. This is from a WVU sportswriter's perspective:

Mike Casazza: Why would WVU root for Big 12 expansion?
by Mike Casazza, Sports Writer

So what happens when the Big 12 does grow and adds two or four teams from the list of names? Those schools will get more money and more influence than ever before. How on Earth is that good for the Mountaineers, who ought to know what it’s like to have more cash and clout than they’re accustomed to? Let Cincinnati and UConn in, let them rake in partial shares for three years and then a full share beginning in the fourth. Watch them commit to coaches and facilities and scheduling.

Change will come, whether we end up with four conferences instead of five or when television contracts are up and leagues look for new and better members. The schools the Big 12 invited have been empowered. They already had a following or a campus in a market valuable for ratings or recruiting or both, and now they have income, accessories and probably even results to go along with the influx of cash and spending.

The question then isn’t whether WVU would still be above those teams. It’s why the Mountaineers would literally invite the danger.

- See more at: Mike Casazza: Why would WVU root for Big 12 expansion?

 

[TRest]

There was another story in that paper. With a similar angle to the Texas booster who questioned why one would want to share money and thus elevate a G5 school. This is from a WVU sportswriter's perspective:

Mike Casazza: Why would WVU root for Big 12 expansion?
by Mike Casazza, Sports Writer

So what happens when the Big 12 does grow and adds two or four teams from the list of names? Those schools will get more money and more influence than ever before. How on Earth is that good for the Mountaineers, who ought to know what it’s like to have more cash and clout than they’re accustomed to? Let Cincinnati and UConn in, let them rake in partial shares for three years and then a full share beginning in the fourth. Watch them commit to coaches and facilities and scheduling.

Change will come, whether we end up with four conferences instead of five or when television contracts are up and leagues look for new and better members. The schools the Big 12 invited have been empowered. They already had a following or a campus in a market valuable for ratings or recruiting or both, and now they have income, accessories and probably even results to go along with the influx of cash and spending.

The question then isn’t whether WVU would still be above those teams. It’s why the Mountaineers would literally invite the danger.

- See more at: Mike Casazza: Why would WVU root for Big 12 expansion?

Yes, more "starve the competition" crap. Since when didn't we have a commitment to coaches, facilities and scheduling?

 

[BlueHen]

There was another story in that paper. With a similar angle to the Texas booster who questioned why one would want to share money and thus elevate a G5 school. This is from a WVU sportswriter's perspective:

Mike Casazza: Why would WVU root for Big 12 expansion?
by Mike Casazza, Sports Writer

So what happens when the Big 12 does grow and adds two or four teams from the list of names? Those schools will get more money and more influence than ever before. How on Earth is that good for the Mountaineers, who ought to know what it’s like to have more cash and clout than they’re accustomed to? Let Cincinnati and UConn in, let them rake in partial shares for three years and then a full share beginning in the fourth. Watch them commit to coaches and facilities and scheduling.

Change will come, whether we end up with four conferences instead of five or when television contracts are up and leagues look for new and better members. The schools the Big 12 invited have been empowered. They already had a following or a campus in a market valuable for ratings or recruiting or both, and now they have income, accessories and probably even results to go along with the influx of cash and spending.

The question then isn’t whether WVU would still be above those teams. It’s why the Mountaineers would literally invite the danger.

- See more at: Mike Casazza: Why would WVU root for Big 12 expansion?

Wow, this guy clearly feels very insecure about WVU's future. The one place I find solace with being stuck in the AAC is that we are stuck with schools that aspire for more; like us. Maybe we never get a P5 invite, but at least in striving to do so the conference gets better because most of the other schools are working to better themselves just like we are. This WVU guy seems to be afraid that by adding schools that wish to do better those schools will someday outshine WVU. This seems similar to the thinking that BC used when it stated that it wanted to be New Englands team and blackballed UConn. How has that worked out for them?

I guess this WVU guy figures that if WVU is the only one on the island, there won't be anyone else around to vote them off.

 

[UCFBfan]

One source pointed out, however, one shouldn’t just ask what Connecticut can do for the Big 12, but what the Big 12 can do for Connecticut. Also, understand UConn’s administration is not as shaky as that of Rutgers. Given the chance, maybe the Huskies can pick up the football and run with it. (We’ve all seen what they can do with a basketball.) If the Big 12 moves forward on a league network, a source said, Connecticut is a “must.” If the league gives up on a network, a school like Memphis is back in the picture.

This comment just makes me angry. It's like everyone forgot that not so long ago our football team was on par, if not better, then many programs who got their golden ticket. I'd say only WVU and Louisville had a better program then us before the Big East fell apart. It's not like we've been terrible forever and getting into the Big 12 will solve this problem forever. Will it help us continue to rebuild? Absolutely. However, it just pisses me off that the whole football world forgets that not so long ago we were a solid football playing team!

 

[huskymedic]

This comment just makes me angry. It's like everyone forgot that not so long ago our football team was on par, if not better, then many programs who got their golden ticket. I'd say only WVU and Louisville had a better program then us before the Big East fell apart. It's not like we've been terrible forever and getting into the Big 12 will solve this problem forever. Will it help us continue to rebuild? Absolutely. However, it just pisses me off that the whole football world forgets that not so long ago we were a solid football playing team!

Yup...

GoCSURams 11:30am via Twitter for iPhone
@flugempire Sorry, I just don't get UCONN to BIG12. Easter time zone, travel, bad football...how do they fit BIG12 profile, culture, brand?

 

[4in16]

Yup...

GoCSURams 11:30am via Twitter for iPhone
@flugempire Sorry, I just don't get UCONN to BIG12. Easter time zone, travel, bad football...how do they fit BIG12 profile, culture, brand?

The Easter time zone, eh.

 

[NYUConn]

Yup...

GoCSURams 11:30am via Twitter for iPhone
@flugempire Sorry, I just don't get UCONN to BIG12. Easter time zone, travel, bad football...how do they fit BIG12 profile, culture, brand?

I love that being in the eastern timezone - where the league already is - is a deal breaker for this guy, but the idea of expanding into a 3rd timezone where they have no presence makes perfect sense.

 

[hardcorehusky]

I guess the Dallas Cowboys hate being in the NFC East. Bad for their business!!

 

[uconnphil2016]

Yup...

GoCSURams 11:30am via Twitter for iPhone
@flugempire Sorry, I just don't get UCONN to BIG12. Easter time zone, travel, bad football...how do they fit BIG12 profile, culture, brand?

Didn't realize that Colorado State was such a football power...

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Don't you all know the population centers of the country all exist in Mountain Standard Time?

 

[BoatShow]

Culture? Is this Storrs or Lawrence?

 

[BUConn10]

This comment just makes me angry. It's like everyone forgot that not so long ago our football team was on par, if not better, then many programs who got their golden ticket. I'd say only WVU and Louisville had a better program then us before the Big East fell apart. It's not like we've been terrible forever and getting into the Big 12 will solve this problem forever. Will it help us continue to rebuild? Absolutely. However, it just pisses me off that the whole football world forgets that not so long ago we were a solid football playing team!

Perception man, that's the name of this whole game. Within internet sports discussion circles, UConn football has become a "meme" of sorts for bad football, to the point where our perception is far worse than the actual reality. What do we need to do to get into a better conference? Improve our football image nationally among fans, because at the end of the day I feel the sentiment of fans regarding potential new members mirrors those of their respective presidents. Here's the kicker though, what improves football perception? Winning and more importantly what conference you are in, so we are in for a steep uphill climb. It's a vicious cycle and for some g*d forsaken reason UConn has been the one program out of the hundreds nationally to have to endure it, despite nothing but sustained success for as long as I can remember.

College football may be the most clique-y, pompous institution in America, as who you play against defines your worth, almost like kids in a schoolyard, and right now from opposing B12 fans' perspectives, no one wants to be seen with us because of who we hang out with.

 

[uconnell]

I love that video of UConn, such a beautiful campus. We take a ride up there just to see the changes and are so impressed, have a nice lunch at Storrs Center and drive around.