Lifted from VT CR board

[dwalks93]

Ummm, it was Stalingrad...apparently FSU wins football championships, not history contests

I just want to talk about UConn on the board, is that so wrong?....

 

[billybud]

Oh I know it was Stalingrad....a momentary 69 year old moment.

I kind of get the UConn argument about "delivering" New York. And Rutger's argument. And wonder what the media consultants say.

What do they say about Cincinnati, USF, etc.

A lot of back and forth on value...but most of us are guessing.

 

[Ldandy]

If Delaney is cast in your allegory as Hitler, he would be served to remember that moving on two fronts may end with a pistol shot.

Just avoid a Leningrad in the cold, cold east.

Leningrad? Nah he has no interest in annexing Syracuse.

 

[FDNY99]

Oh I know it was Stalingrad....a momentary 69 year old moment.

I kind of get the UConn argument about "delivering" New York. And Rutger's argument. And wonder what the media consultants say.

What do they say about Cincinnati, USF, etc.

A lot of back and forth on value...but most of us are guessing.

Nothing to kind of get...the ratings on SNY speak for themselves!

 

[pj]

Leningrad? Nah he has no interest in annexing Syracuse.

Don't be silly. Syracuse is snowier, colder, and less interested in football than Leningrad.

 

[btstimpy]

The Virginia fella doesn't seem to know that the ACC, like the SEC, was born of the Southern Conference...(not eastern).

The Southern Conference Charter members included UNC, Clemson, Duke, NC State, GT, Maryland and Wake Forest in addition to the teams now in the SEC.

It was a southern conference...and when it split into the SEC and the ACC....it was still southern (with Maryland being the northern border). True...most of the SEC teams were southwest of the Appalachians and many of the ACC teams were east of the appalachians...but all were considered to be southern.

The entire move to Cuse, Pitt, BC left the southern footprint. This "eastern conference" talk is only of late when the move was made to go northeast.

I, unabashedly, have never been a supporter of the ACC going north. But I guess all conferences are thinking of extra lebensraum (as HItler put it).

The Virginia fella also knows that 2016 isn't 1953. It isn't even 1983. Since 1953, a third demographic region has developed between the northeast and the southeast along the Atlantic Coast within the country, and it has been named the Mid-Atlantic Region. It is neither northeastern nor southern, and it has consumed everywhere from Central Pennsylvania and South Jersey down to Central North Carolina over the past 30 years.

Virginia hasn't been southern in 25 years. I remember when it was. Not today. And the part of North Carolina where the 4 ACC schools reside hasn't really been in 15 years. That's why you see SEC fans in western Carolina where you are. You wouldn't in the Research Triangle. And by the way, only 3 of the presidents of the 15 institutions of the ACC even grew up in southern states. And that's if you count Maryland and Kentucky as southern states.

I understand all of the history of the ACC and the Southern Conference, but today is not 1953. The ACC today is the collegiate athletic conference that encompasses the span on the Atlantic Coast from New England to the Northeast to the Mid Atlantic to the South Atlantic to Florida. Louisville is outside the region, but they are close enough to adapt. And they have.

 

[btstimpy]

"The (ACC's) Strategic Focus is simple. Expand into regions that enable the universities in the conference better visibility to recruit students that can pay the private school tuitions and public out of state tuitions that can meet the academic standards of the schools in the league."...

Ummm, the latest ACC addition was Louisville....checkmate

Louisville was a deviation from the Strategic Focus. But when Maryland left, the ACC found it difficult to believe that the Big XII had blundered so bad by not replenishing the four members it lost and left an athletic department with a bigger budget than 2/3 of the Big Ten sitting there who had recent consistent track records of top 25 status is all of the major men's sports. It was an athletic department 40% bigger than what the ACC lost in a region that treats it like a professional franchise in many of our regional cities. The City of Louisville build it an arena like Miami did for the Heat. It was too difficult to pass on, and no one has regretted it yet in any way.

You are correct. It was a deviation. I don't see other ones on the horizon.

 

[dwalks93]

Louisville was a deviation from the Strategic Focus. But when Maryland left, the ACC found it difficult to believe that the Big XII had blundered so bad by not replenishing the four members it lost and left an athletic department with a bigger budget than 2/3 of the Big Ten sitting there who had recent consistent track records of top 25 status is all of the major men's sports. It was an athletic department 40% bigger than what the ACC lost in a region that treats it like a professional franchise in many of our regional cities. The City of Louisville build it an arena like Miami did for the Heat. It was too difficult to pass on, and no one has regretted it yet in any way.

You are correct. It was a deviation. I don't see other ones on the horizon.

You don't see any "deviations" on the horizon because it is impossible to predict what John Swofford is trying to do. In fact the best predicator of the ACC's future expansion strategy is to ask FSU/Clemson what they want...they have the influence in the ACC now.

If "the City of Louisville build it an arena like Miami did for the Heat. It was too difficult to pass on, and no one has regretted it yet in any way" then the ACC has not felt the full effect of the upcoming Louisville prostitution scandal. It is only going to get worse and UL is an ACC baby now...regret is coming in a lot of ways

The ACC fans cannot continue to deflect their commissioner's mismanagement by arguing the B12 has screwed up worse. In a 5 man race I generally run against the #1 guy....not the #5 dude.

 

[btstimpy]

You are clearly a smart guy but there is no way you can really think PSU owns PA, NJ, DE, and Maryland? There is a reason the BIG added Rutgers and Maryland and immediately the BIG profit went through the roof. We can argue "opinion" but I submit the BIG's last revenue increase shows PSU did not own NJ and Maryland. No one was buying the BIG network in Maryland till they added Maryland, ditto on Rutger. Having fans in a region is not the same as being able to sell a network in that region. The ACC has fans up and down the east coast but they could only sell a network in VA and NC...that is why there is no ACCN. While the BIG and SEC were playing chess the ACC was playing checkers.

Eventually UVA will realize the ACC teams they care about are being marginalized. The ACC as a tobacco road lead conference no longer exist. UVA wants to play UNC, Duke, VT and GT. When the BIG makes offers for those programs they will leave together and the ACC football powers and BE leftovers will be left to battle it out.

The ACC went another direction (football playing school in the south) and UConn has moved on. If the ACC was smart they would try to grab Cincy and UConn right now but the ACC football schools would never allow it. If you want to know who has the power you need only look at who has the veto authority...FSU/Clemson > UNC/Duke...game over

BTW conference realignment has nothing to do with winning. FSU/Clemson may be better football teams than Texas/Oklahoma but if the B12 gets a network and it pays significantly more than the ACC then they will leave. Follow the money, not the wins...

And here I thought this was a UConn board..

Tell you what, you should go to a sports pub in Mt. Laurel, NJ or Cherry Hill, NJ and take a poll across a crowded room during live sports to find out how many people there follow college football. You'll find less than 20%, and those you find ask who their team is. You'll hear Penn State or Notre Dame. You won't hear another name unless it is from someone from out of town.

Do the Same in Baltimore or Annapolis, MD. You'll get the exact same answers. If it's cold enough you'll see those hats in the room that look like the Nittany Lion on someone's head.

During college basketball season, you'll get a different response more positive, and many schools will be named. But I'm talking football in this example.

The Big Ten added Maryland and Rutgers to keep Penn State happy. Penn State is one of the only 2 major players in the east. The Big Ten didn't want to lose them. That fleecing of cable subscribers in those 2 states is temporary until the cord cutters prevail. Then it will just be Penn State with its two play toys. When Penn State gets tired of those play toys, we'll see what happens.

This was the case when the ACC had Maryland BTW. That's why they struggle to have a solvent athletic department.

 

[btstimpy]

You don't see any "deviations" on the horizon because it is impossible to predict what John Swofford is trying to do. In fact the best predicator of the ACC's future expansion strategy is to ask FSU/Clemson what they want...they have the influence in the ACC now.

If "the City of Louisville build it an arena like Miami did for the Heat. It was too difficult to pass on, and no one has regretted it yet in any way" then the ACC has not felt the full effect of the upcoming Louisville prostitution scandal. It is only going to get worse and UL is an ACC baby now...regret is coming in a lot of ways

The ACC fans cannot continue to deflect their commissioner's mismanagement by arguing the B12 has screwed up worse. In a 5 man race I generally run against the #1 guy....not the #5 dude.

The Louisville prostitution scandal doesn't bother me in the least. College football recruiting has been using young women to recruit football players going back before Bear Bryant at Alabama. I like the idea of actually seeing someone hire professionals rather than pimping their coeds. It goes on everywhere, and it's a shame Louisville is a scape goat.

 

[btstimpy]

Ummm . . . Notre Dame football is not part of the ACC. Why are you bringing them up? ND - Temple doesn't even include an ACC football program.

I bring it up because I look an UVA's schedule and see Notre Dame on it more in the next ten years than I see NC State. I look at ND's schedule for the next 10 years and see 50 ACC games. I can't help but to see them part of our seasons for a long time.

 

[dwalks93]

You are not getting it. The BIG added Maryland and Rutgers to sell cable boxes and form a permanent east coast presence. This is why the BIG is making way more than the ACC. The BIG network changes the financial dynamics and regions become more important.

So the BIG expanded to keep PSU happy cause they didn't want to lose them? Ummm, where was PSU going...Answer, no where, the BIG is the top conference in the north. PSU may have a ton of fans in NJ who want to see them play there but the BIG was not paying $35 million + a year to Rutgers for that...Rutgers made the BIG money and allowed further east coast access

Dudes in a bar cheering for their team does not equate to owning a region. I'll take the BIG financial analysts over the ACC bar survey.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Tell you what, you should go to a sports pub in Mt. Laurel, NJ or Cherry Hill, NJ and take a poll across a crowded room during live sports to find out how many people there follow college football. You'll find less than 20%, and those you find ask who their team is. You'll hear Penn State or Notre Dame. You won't hear another name unless it is from someone from out of town.

Do the Same in Baltimore or Annapolis, MD. You'll get the exact same answers. If it's cold enough you'll see those hats in the room that look like the Nittany Lion on someone's head.

During college basketball season, you'll get a different response more positive, and many schools will be named. But I'm talking football in this example.

The Big Ten added Maryland and Rutgers to keep Penn State happy. Penn State is one of the only 2 major players in the east. The Big Ten didn't want to lose them. That fleecing of cable subscribers in those 2 states is temporary until the cord cutters prevail. Then it will just be Penn State with its two play toys. When Penn State gets tired of those play toys, we'll see what happens.

This was the case when the ACC had Maryland BTW. That's why they struggle to have a solvent athletic department.

I've lived and worked in Mt. Laurel and Cherry Hill. ND wasn't discussed. It was Penn State and Rutgers was distant second. Never ND.

I went to school in College Park. ND was never discussed. Maryland mostly and then Navy. Never ND.

 

[Pat125]

The Louisville prostitution scandal doesn't bother me in the least. College football recruiting has been using young women to recruit football players going back before Bear Bryant at Alabama. I like the idea of actually seeing someone hire professionals rather than pimping their coeds. It goes on everywhere, and it's a shame Louisville is a scape goat.

Interesting. I'm still trying to find out which of the two practices is more disgusting and reprehensible. I'm going to go out on a limb that Dr. Sullivan would be genuinely surprised and appalled if that was happening on her campus.

 

[Orkney]

Even if we didn't achieve the success of the basketball programs, I feel strongly that there is an incredible amount of nascent support that could EASILY support a good football program and build on the success of basketball.

Like Indiana? Like Kansas? Like Kentucky?

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Interesting. I'm still trying to find out which of the two practices is more disgusting and reprehensible. I'm going to go out on a limb that Dr. Sullivan would be genuinely surprised and appalled if that was happening on her campus.

Uh, that happens everywhere. It goes all the way back to high school for cripes sake. I knew a girl on my floor at UConn who during a UConn game on TV, would point out all of the players she slept with on BOTH teams and she did not do it for the money. Ray Allen and Donny Marshall could have walked from MSB to Alumni on any given night and received several unsolicited offers for a fun night while I was at school. Heck, I head of similar stories about football recruits at Ithaca College - a good DIII football program. The difference is that this was voluntary. At Louisville, for some unknown reason, the decided that they had to hire (likely with direct or indirect, i.e. booster. money) professionals and then got caught.

 

[The Viking]

Louisville was a deviation from the Strategic Focus. But when Maryland left, the ACC found it difficult to believe that the Big XII had blundered so bad by not replenishing the four members it lost and left an athletic department with a bigger budget than 2/3 of the Big Ten sitting there who had recent consistent track records of top 25 status is all of the major men's sports. It was an athletic department 40% bigger than what the ACC lost in a region that treats it like a professional franchise in many of our regional cities. The City of Louisville build it an arena like Miami did for the Heat. It was too difficult to pass on, and no one has regretted it yet in any way.

You are correct. It was a deviation. I don't see other ones on the horizon.

I would imagine any ACC president worth his/her salt regrets adding Louisville EVERY SINGLE DAY. I'm just not sure if there are any decent ACC presidents left anymore that care more about education than a Bobby Petrino-led football team. Maybe a couple?
And that's one of the differences between the B1G and the ACC. The B1G cares about adding strong academic institutions while the ACC does not.

 

[btstimpy]

I've lived and worked in Mt. Laurel and Cherry Hill. ND wasn't discussed. It was Penn State and Rutgers was distant second. Never ND.

I went to school in College Park. ND was never discussed. Maryland mostly and then Navy. Never ND.

The New Jersey response is what I'd expect with Penn State primary and Rutgers distant from that. It is Penn State territory. You'll get ND if you get around Catholics. Otherwise Penn State. If you run across a Rutgers alumni, my expectation is that you'll hear that. It will be much less.

If in College Park you didn't hear Maryland, that would be embarrassing. I was referring to Baltimore and Annapolis. I would suspect you'd hear Navy in Annapolis a lot if you talk to the Midshipmen and their families and friends. If they keep doing as well as they have been, even more. Penn State is huge in that area just like South Jersey.

 

[btstimpy]

I would imagine any ACC president worth his/her salt regrets adding Louisville EVERY SINGLE DAY. I'm just not sure if there are any decent ACC presidents left anymore that care more about education than a Bobby Petrino-led football team. Maybe a couple?
And that's one of the differences between the B1G and the ACC. The B1G cares about adding strong academic institutions while the ACC does not.

There are nine new Presidents at the 15 ACC Institutions that have been sworn in since Louisville was added. Only the Presidents at UVA, Duke, Wake Forest, Boston College, and Notre Dame carry over from the vote to add Louisville. ND didn't vote, but they were consulted. I don't know if this means anything, but it is a changing of the guard.

 

[The Viking]

There are nine new Presidents at the 15 ACC Institutions that have been sworn in since Louisville was added. Only the Presidents at UVA, Duke, Wake Forest, Boston College, and Notre Dame carry over from the vote to add Louisville. ND didn't vote, but they were consulted. I don't know if this means anything, but it is a changing of the guard.

It means nothing. Recent history has shown that the majority of ACC schools don't give a damn about academics when it comes to their student athletes.

 

[btstimpy]

Uh, that happens everywhere. It goes all the way back to high school for cripes sake. I knew a girl on my floor at UConn who during a UConn game on TV, would point out all of the players she slept with on BOTH teams and she did not do it for the money. Ray Allen and Donny Marshall could have walked from MSB to Alumni on any given night and received several unsolicited offers for a fun night while I was at school. Heck, I head of similar stories about football recruits at Ithaca College - a good DIII football program. The difference is that this was voluntary. At Louisville, for some unknown reason, the decided that they had to hire (likely with direct or indirect, i.e. booster. money) professionals and then got caught.

The organizing of female "hostesses" for football recruits has long been the role of the coaching recruiting staff at football schools. The leeway of this is a gray area, and it can get quite close to the line in terms of coercion. In this day and age of litigation happy society, the rules should be changed to allow hiring professionals IMO.

I know that James Franklin got dangerously close at Vanderbilt to being in big trouble doing the coercion routine.

Changing subjects, Mr. Conehead. I'm not sure if you go back far enough, but do you know if UConn is responsible for politically manipulating the Big East to kick Temple out to take their spot for FBS football 15 years ago? I always though UConn's rise to FBS and Temple's boot were unrelated. I'm hearing that they weren't in places I don't want to hear it. I don't know enough to refute it, but I want to if it is not at all true. If it is true, then so be it. Louisville kicked VT out of the Metro before. That can be overcome. But I don't want false rumors out there where I know they are.

 

[Yawkey Way]

. I'm just not sure if there are any decent ACC presidents left anymore that care more about education
And that's one of the differences between the B1G and the ACC. The B1G cares about adding strong academic institutions while the ACC does not.

Jerry Sandusky sure was all about the education of young people when he roamed the academic and athletic halls during his many years at Penn State.

Look, none of these league alignment decisions are about " Academics ". No matter what anybody tells us otherwise. They are driven by money. Period. And when it comes to " academic caring ", the NCAA and its member institutions give only lip service to that... as money is what drives all these School Presidents when they decide to vote on expansion. And lest we forget, the BE School Presidents all voted to boot Temple to the curb from its league... and yet Temple is a fine academic institution, far better academically than most of its peers were in the BE at the time. But they were a drag on the other BE School President's money, so thats why they were booted to the curb by these BE School Presidents. The BIG has no more, nor no less, scandals with their student- athletes, Coaches, than the ACC or any other league. Not if you have been reading the stories that come out of Columbus, Ann Arbor, Happy Valley, et al these last few years.

 

[Fishy]

A quick memo to the UVa and BC twits who have recently risen from the dead....

Less is more.

Not every thread needs your participation and since neither of you have anything to offer other than writing high-pitched defensive narratives for your school/conference, we do not need to hear much from you.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Less is more.

.

More or less.

That said, I'll heed your angry admonition, and take a break for awhile. I do get the point that this is a Uconn Board and some people can get real angry with outsiders take on things. So I'll return one and all to the Uconn bubble world that seems preferred here. Take care.. be well.

 

[Hoophound]

Like Indiana? Like Kansas? Like Kentucky?

No, like UConn before Edsall left. We have passionate football fans, it has been proven. A decent football team playing a schedule of big boy schools results in a great atmosphere. We really don't need to speculate if that would happen, it already happened when we were in the a Big East.