Lifted from VT CR board

[Huskybite]

Even moving " east " ( to N.E., NJ, etc ) won't be all that great for the Big. Besides, the ACC proactively expanded both " east " and " south ", by adding Miami, BC, VT, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville ( and ND from right in the center of the midwest ) under Swofford's tenure. Under Swofford, the ACC expanded north, south, east all along the Atlantic Coast all the way from Maine to the southern tip of Florida. The Big took Maryland & Rutgers by comparison. Not exactly a good comparison to what the ACC has done by contrast, imo. I'd say an unbiased view would say the ACC has done pretty well for itself in the musical chairs we call realignment. Plus, the league is stable now too. Look at the B12. Its a mess, with instabilty, infighting, acrimony galore. Its the B12 that might " collapse " imo... not the ACC.

How exactly do BC, Syracuse and Pitt capture the Northeast? One might argue that they don't even capture their own backyards. Collectively, their feeling of "stability" is likely based on cashing checks and living off the tit that has become the ACC

 

[FDNY99]

Even moving " east " ( to N.E., NJ, etc ) won't be all that great for the Big. Besides, the ACC proactively expanded both " east " and " south ", by adding Miami, BC, VT, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville ( and ND from right in the center of the midwest ) under Swofford's tenure. Under Swofford, the ACC expanded north, south, east all along the Atlantic Coast all the way from Maine to the southern tip of Florida. The Big took Maryland & Rutgers by comparison. Not exactly a good comparison to what the ACC has done by contrast, imo. I'd say an unbiased view would say the ACC has done pretty well for itself in the musical chairs we call realignment. Plus, the league is stable now too. Look at the B12. Its a mess, with instabilty, infighting, acrimony galore. Its the B12 that might " collapse " imo... not the ACC.

You can't be serious...The B1G has passed the ACC by a LONG time ago...now the SEC has as well! The commissioner of your favorite conference Yawky royally screwed them when he sold the media rights that are needed for a ACC Network to Raycom. ESPN didn't want to pay 3x (pay to produce programming, buy the programming back from Raycom, pay the ACC schools for the programming) for those rights to produce a ACCN when they were flush with cash....NOT gonna happen now. If the B-12 gets a network off the ground the clock is ticking for FSU and Clemson to want out...just like before. And a school like BC with the performances of recent seasons in football and basketball (especially the past 12 months) should start to seriously worry if that happens because the backfills for Clemson and FSU won't be anywhere close to UConn and Cincy!

 

[dwalks93]

Even moving " east " ( to N.E., NJ, etc ) won't be all that great for the Big. Besides, the ACC proactively expanded both " east " and " south ", by adding Miami, BC, VT, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville ( and ND from right in the center of the midwest ) under Swofford's tenure. Under Swofford, the ACC expanded north, south, east all along the Atlantic Coast all the way from Maine to the southern tip of Florida. The Big took Maryland & Rutgers by comparison. Not exactly a good comparison to what the ACC has done by contrast, imo. I'd say an unbiased view would say the ACC has done pretty well for itself in the musical chairs we call realignment. Plus, the league is stable now too. Look at the B12. Its a mess, with instabilty, infighting, acrimony galore. Its the B12 that might " collapse " imo... not the ACC.

I am not sure why you think the ACC's acquisitions compare favorably to the BIG? Out of Miami, BC, VT, Syracuse, Pitt, and Louisville, probably only VT would have been snatched up by the BIG or SEC. The ACC only succeed in killing the BE, not acquiring big money producing programs. In fact, the ACC has not acquired any team that wasn't in the BE.

Which of the above programs has athletically improved in the ACC? Answer -none.
Has the ACC successfully attracted a BIG/SEC team? Answer - no
Is the ACC payout literally $10 million + less than the BIG/SEC? Answer -yes.
Does the ACC have a network like the BIG/SEC? Answer -no

The ACC acquired programs at the height of their athletic achievement and they promptly declined. It will be interesting to see what happens with Louisville which already seems to be declining. Yet, despite this decline, the ACC still needs to pay them a full share. The "acquisitions" have become a financial boat anchor.

The B12 is unstable and that has helped the ACC. But let there be no doubt the BIG and SEC would rather the Big12 succeed than the ACC. If you doubt that statement look at the last rule change which allowed the Big12 to play a CCG with 10 while denying the ACC's request to restructure. The argument the ACC is well run because the B12 is equally screwed up does not pass the laugh test.

Last Question: Do you think if John Swofford was offered a direct swap of UConn for BC straight up he would take it? The answer is undoubtably yes . Twenty years ago BC would have been selected every day of the week and twice on Sunday over UConn. That is what the ACC did to BC.

 

[billybud]

I do not know about ACC, B1G, etc. and how that turns out.

I do know that the ACC is currently doing great in terms of sports...FSU and Clemson are doing great in football playing at a national contender level...and baseball, basketball, lacrosse, soccer have all been national championships for the ACC in the last couple of seasons.

I've never been a fan of the ACC...I am a fan of FSU. And as an FSU guy, I never understood the ACC's going to the northeast with Cuse and BC....wish that had never happened.

When Maryland was the northern outrider of the conference, that was almost palatable. Going to Boston and Syracuse was a Swofford boondoggle. Until FSU did a Boren style sabre rattle, the ACC/Swofford worked to screw FSU in favor of Tobacco Road.

In the 10 year stretch before the rattling, FSU traveled on Thursday night 8 of the 10 years...to BC, Cuse, UNC, etc...while UNC traveled twice, but never outside of a comfortable neighborhood drive. A released scholarly study of football officiating showed an ACC bias against FSU and for the underdogs (funny how that has now cleared up since 2012).

The ACC has failed to make divisions that make some sense, like North-South. Letting FSU know that any northeast expansion would go into their division, on top of BC and Cuse, led to a Clemson-FSU revolt. Travelling to the North, while FSU's closest and oldest opponent is 250 miles away in the city with the largest FSU alumni group outside of Florida. And FSU visits them once every 12 years. Nole fans loathe Swofford and tolerate the ACC.

Jimbo is now 14-1 against Florida teams and FSU. the last time that they played them, has beaten Florida, South Carolina, Auburn, and Saban's Alabama. FSU opens 2016 with Mississippi and 2017 with Alabama. When you put a pin in the map for Tallahassee, you see a semi circle ringing the town..from 150 miles to the east, Gainesville....through Athens. Auburn, Tuscaloosa, and on, to 450 miles to the west, Baton Rouge.

And the SEC fan sees Clemson and FSU as a real challenge to SEC football NC hegemony and the vitriol is often heated. Clemson and FSU play in the ACC, but are the SEC-like teams that are plunked down in indian territory.

One's outlook is usually a function of one's environment.

Someone from the northeast will have a much different view of the sports world than one of us...it is what it is.

Most Noles don't care where we play, in terms of conference, as much as who we play...regionalism is, of course, preferred to the CUSA dart in map models.

 

[BlueHen]

Even moving " east " ( to N.E., NJ, etc ) won't be all that great for the Big. Besides, the ACC proactively expanded both " east " and " south ", by adding Miami, BC, VT, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville ( and ND from right in the center of the midwest ) under Swofford's tenure. Under Swofford, the ACC expanded north, south, east all along the Atlantic Coast all the way from Maine to the southern tip of Florida. The Big took Maryland & Rutgers by comparison. Not exactly a good comparison to what the ACC has done by contrast, imo. I'd say an unbiased view would say the ACC has done pretty well for itself in the musical chairs we call realignment. Plus, the league is stable now too. Look at the B12. Its a mess, with instabilty, infighting, acrimony galore. Its the B12 that might " collapse " imo... not the ACC.

Seriously?

The ACC didn't expand south, adding it already had teams in Virginia and Florida, so adding VT and Miami doesn't expand the footprint.
The ACC can't expand east, it's on the coast. I understand your confusion, BC is on an island, but that island isn't in the Atlantic.
The ACC did expand sorth, but Pitt is in B1G country, Syracuse is in the middle of nowhere and BC is irrelevant.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Seriously?

The ACC didn't expand south, adding it already had teams in Virginia and Florida, so adding VT and Miami doesn't expand the footprint.
The ACC can't expand east, it's on the coast. I understand your confusion, BC is on an island, but that island isn't in the Atlantic.
The ACC did expand sorth, but Pitt is in B1G country, Syracuse is in the middle of nowhere and BC is irrelevant.

Pitt is definitely on an island too. Imagine being caught between OSU and PSU (arguably the most popular team in the northeast) with Maryland and WVU territory to their immediate south? The ACC is rife with teams that are essentially small schools on islands within a territorial sea of a big boy conference like the SEC or B1G. I'm no expert, but that doesn't seem like a very good set up.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

There is no data available that says Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Iowa, Pennsylvania ie " the rust belt ", will be growing in population, influence, etc over the next 50 years. Quite the opposite as a matter of fact. All the data points to a loss of population, loss of influence, etc. Where is the population expected to grow in the country over the next 50 years ? Well, its not in the midwest. Its in the South, Southwest. The notion that the ACC league thus is going " to collapse ", or swallowed up by the " rust belt " midwest league is really going against all the data that is readily available to us as to where the population shifts, influence, leverage, etc will be happening over the next 50 years. ND is anything but stupid. They had a chance to join the Rust Belt Conference , but they see the same population data for the next 50 years as the rest of us.

Your demographics are right; but, the rest is off. The ACC is located in the growth area of the US; but, incomes (thus marketing value) in the Southeast is still lower than the Northeast, Midwest (and Pac Coast) and the ACC only has the marquee brands in 2 states - Virginia (UVA) and NC (UNC & Duke). Everywhere else along the East Coast, the ACC has a private school (Syracuse, BC) or a secondary state school which allows a conference like the SEC to dominate or is completely missing like NJ and Maryland. That combination is what makes the ACC weak.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Your demographics are right; but, the rest is off. The ACC is located in the growth area of the US; but, incomes (thus marketing value) in the Southeast is still lower than the Northeast, Midwest (and Pac Coast) and the ACC only has the marquee brands in 2 states - Virginia (UVA) and NC (UNC & Duke). Everywhere else along the East Coast, the ACC has a private school (Syracuse, BC) or a secondary state school which allows a conference like the SEC to dominate or is completely missing like NJ and Maryland. That combination is what makes the ACC weak.

Football interest however in " the northeast " is weak compared to the " south" and in the "southeast ". And with what football interest there is in the " northeast ", it is overwhelmingly professional football interest, not amateur college football interest. The SEC trumps all the other leagues in both college football interest and revenue streams to its member schools, yet its state population's " incomes " is far below that of both the Northeast, the Far West, and the Midwest. The ACC revenue streams to its member schools is dispositive in my opinion as to the financial stability of the ACC. As such, the notion that the ACC is financially " weak " or in on the verge of " collapse ", or is run by a Commissioner that is " incompetent " ( all stated above ) is certainly interesting to read, but I'm not sure such sentiments are borne out by such factors as the funds disbursements to the member schools, nor by the complete absence of any current credible talk of any ACC schools talking at the institutional levels of leaving or bolting the league for any other and so forth. When we contrast this with the B12 ( for example ) it seems pretty clear ( to me anyway ) which of the two leagues is having current disharmony, discord, institutional claims by members of mismanagement, financial missteps, and even claims of potential splintering and / or even collapse.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Seriously?

The ACC didn't expand south, adding it already had teams in Virginia and Florida, so adding VT and Miami doesn't expand the footprint.
.

Before Swofford became Commissioner, the ACC's furthest "northern" school was Maryland . The ACC's furthest " southern " school was Florida State, located in Tallahassee. When they added Miami, they added a school that is further away from Tallahassee, Fl than Storrs Ct is from College Park, Maryland. Then the ACC went north and added BC, Virginia Tech, Pitt, Syracuse to this once " southern league ". The ACC, under Swofford expanded its once primarily southern imprint to the north, northeast. These former BE schools made the ACC a Coastal conference from Southern tip of Florida all the way up to Maine..... a far larger, wider, deeper, conference than before. The ACC even took Louisville, Kentucky off the table for expansion by the others. And made sure that ND... a midwest located school... wouldn't be joining the B12, nor the Big, any time soon as well. Given where the ACC was when Swofford took office (with the BE his biggest league competitor at the time) and where it is today with the addition of 7 teams from outside its core southern states, beating the competitor BE into submission, etc if thats " incompetence " ( as alleged here) I guess I could live with a decade more of such alleged " incompetence " from Swofford.

 

[btstimpy]

I do not know about ACC, B1G, etc. and how that turns out.

I do know that the ACC is currently doing great in terms of sports...FSU and Clemson are doing great in football playing at a national contender level...and baseball, basketball, lacrosse, soccer have all been national championships for the ACC in the last couple of seasons.

I've never been a fan of the ACC...I am a fan of FSU. And as an FSU guy, I never understood the ACC's going to the northeast with Cuse and BC....wish that had never happened.

When Maryland was the northern outrider of the conference, that was almost palatable. Going to Boston and Syracuse was a Swofford boondoggle. Until FSU did a Boren style sabre rattle, the ACC/Swofford worked to screw FSU in favor of Tobacco Road.

In the 10 year stretch before the rattling, FSU traveled on Thursday night 8 of the 10 years...to BC, Cuse, UNC, etc...while UNC traveled twice, but never outside of a comfortable neighborhood drive. A released scholarly study of football officiating showed an ACC bias against FSU and for the underdogs (funny how that has now cleared up since 2012).

The ACC has failed to make divisions that make some sense, like North-South. Letting FSU know that any northeast expansion would go into their division, on top of BC and Cuse, led to a Clemson-FSU revolt. Travelling to the North, while FSU's closest and oldest opponent is 250 miles away in the city with the largest FSU alumni group outside of Florida. And FSU visits them once every 12 years. Nole fans loathe Swofford and tolerate the ACC.

Jimbo is now 14-1 against Florida teams and FSU. the last time that they played them, has beaten Florida, South Carolina, Auburn, and Saban's Alabama. FSU opens 2016 with Mississippi and 2017 with Alabama. When you put a pin in the map for Tallahassee, you see a semi circle ringing the town..from 150 miles to the east, Gainesville....through Athens. Auburn, Tuscaloosa, and on, to 450 miles to the west, Baton Rouge.

And the SEC fan sees Clemson and FSU as a real challenge to SEC football NC hegemony and the vitriol is often heated. Clemson and FSU play in the ACC, but are the SEC-like teams that are plunked down in indian territory.

One's outlook is usually a function of one's environment.

Someone from the northeast will have a much different view of the sports world than one of us...it is what it is.

Most Noles don't care where we play, in terms of conference, as much as who we play...regionalism is, of course, preferred to the CUSA dart in map models.

Come on Billybud. FSU has been in the ACC for 25 years, and you don't know why the ACC is doing what it is doing and think this is a Swofford boondoggle. I come back after being away for almost a year to see what UConn fans think of all of this drama in the Big XII that could lead to a UConn invite, and instead I find this thread debating the motives and direction of the ACC.

The ACC is not a Southern Conference, and it doesn't ever intend to be a Southern Conference. It's an East Coast Conference. There are 7 private universities (Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Wake Forest, Duke, and Miami) along with three public universities that operate like private universities (Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia Tech). All ten require high school students that want to go to college to pay very high tuition. Where do you get those? North of the Mason Dixon line and east of Ohio. It is no Swofford boondoggle that all ten of these universities want to regularly play athletic events on the road north of the mason dixon line and east of Ohio. And the remaining ACC schools (VT, NCSU,Clemson, FSU, and Louisville) are catching on from the others.

The ACC is a collection of universities. It is not a semi-pro football league. The questioning of Syracuse and Boston College is also surprising. Notre Dame's Father Jenkins direct quote, "We at Notre Dame have more alumni, more fans, and more support in New York and Massachusetts than in ALL of the midwest." Where do you think Syracuse and Boston College reside? As for the analysis of which states that the ACC owns. The combination of Notre Dame, Syracuse, and Boston College owns New York and Massachusetts. There are no other FBS schools of consequence in either state. You could argue Notre Dame isn't in the ACC, but the ACC has more of them than any other league.

There are only 2 college football teams that drive major interest in the northeast, Notre Dame and Penn State. They both bring large non-alumni fan bases. Notre Dame owns New York and New England. Penn State owns Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland. There is a little crossover with Catholics in the Penn State territory and non Catholics in the ND territory. The rest of the schools in the Northeast are primarily supported by their alumni only.

UConn has done a nice job of becoming the team in Connecticut. That's why I always saw UConn as a good fit for the ACC. Most here don't want to be in the ACC, so I'm surprised there are still threads talking about the ACC. As I read through some of these threads today, there are hardly any ACC fans left on the Boneyard like there were before.

As for FSU playing Georgia Tech, Georgia Tech specifically wants to annually play Duke, Clemson, and North Carolina in that order before ever considering anyone else other than their annual rivalry with Georgia. They have an 83 game history with Duke, an 80 game history with Clemson, and a 50 game history with North Carolina. They only have a 24 game history with FSU. You could ask to swap divisions with Miami to get GT, but you'd lose Clemson. The ACC will not be doing North-South divisions because of the desire for everyone to play north and the northern schools to play south.

 

[ZOOCONN]

How is FSU stuck? According to Frank the Tank: "Florida State hits virtually every metric that the Big Ten is looking for long-term; football power, growing population and massive TV markets."

if I had to guess I would say academics

 

[dwalks93]

Come on Billybud. FSU has been in the ACC for 25 years, and you don't know why the ACC is doing what it is doing and think this is a Swofford boondoggle. I come back after being away for almost a year to see what UConn fans think of all of this drama in the Big XII that could lead to a UConn invite, and instead I find this thread debating the motives and direction of the ACC.

The ACC is not a Southern Conference, and it doesn't ever intend to be a Southern Conference. It's an East Coast Conference. There are 7 private universities (Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Wake Forest, Duke, and Miami) along with three public universities that operate like private universities (Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia Tech). All ten require high school students that want to go to college to pay very high tuition. Where do you get those? North of the Mason Dixon line and east of Ohio. It is no Swofford boondoggle that all ten of these universities want to regularly play athletic events on the road north of the mason dixon line and east of Ohio. And the remaining ACC schools (VT, NCSU,Clemson, FSU, and Louisville) are catching on from the others.

The ACC is a collection of universities. It is not a semi-pro football league. The questioning of Syracuse and Boston College is also surprising. Notre Dame's Father Jenkins direct quote, "We at Notre Dame have more alumni, more fans, and more support in New York and Massachusetts than in ALL of the midwest." Where do you think Syracuse and Boston College reside? As for the analysis of which states that the ACC owns. The combination of Notre Dame, Syracuse, and Boston College owns New York and Massachusetts. There are no other FBS schools of consequence in either state. You could argue Notre Dame isn't in the ACC, but the ACC has more of them than any other league.

There are only 2 college football teams that drive major interest in the northeast, Notre Dame and Penn State. They both bring large non-alumni fan bases. Notre Dame owns New York and New England. Penn State owns Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland. There is a little crossover with Catholics in the Penn State territory and non Catholics in the ND territory. The rest of the schools in the Northeast are primarily supported by their alumni only.

UConn has done a nice job of becoming the team in Connecticut. That's why I always saw UConn as a good fit for the ACC. Most here don't want to be in the ACC, so I'm surprised there are still threads talking about the ACC. As I read through some of these threads today, there are hardly any ACC fans left on the Boneyard like there were before.

As for FSU playing Georgia Tech, Georgia Tech specifically wants to annually play Duke, Clemson, and North Carolina in that order before ever considering anyone else other than their annual rivalry with Georgia. They have an 83 game history with Duke, an 80 game history with Clemson, and a 50 game history with North Carolina. They only have a 24 game history with FSU. You could ask to swap divisions with Miami to get GT, but you'd lose Clemson. The ACC will not be doing North-South divisions because of the desire for everyone to play north and the northern schools to play south.

Your post is proving my point, the ACC has no strategic focus. It is a rutterless ship which is more interested in ramming other boats as opposed to actually getting somewhere. If Swofford had a vision for an "east coast" conference he failed to retain the teams he needed to hold the key markets.

First off, allow me to be the first Husky fan to challenged your assertion that ND, Syracuse, and BC own NYC. Certainly there is significant numbers of alumni of those schools in NYC but UConn and Rutgers are equally, if not more, important. If you doubt UConn's influence in NYC you need only re-watch the UConn/MSU NCAA tournament game in 2014 or any Big East tournament when we were a member. As numerous prior posts have discussed, many programs have strong alumni presence in NYC but to truly own the market, the ACC needed UConn and Rutgers. Instead the ACC let them walk away. How can the ACC be the east coast team if they do not own NYC, NJ, and Connecticut?

Fast forward to Maryland. Maryland/DC is a huge metro hubb on the east coast. Yet the ACC allowed the BIG to walk in and take them? If Swofford's vision was an "east coast league" the ACC could not afford to lose Connecticut, NYC, NJ, Maryland and Washington DC.

Bottom line is Swofford attempted to change the vision of the ACC. I am surprised you haven't already reached this conclusion but Billybud's posts show he certainly understands it. As football became the big money driver the ACC shifted more toward the south and its dominant football schools. Schools like FSU and Clemson became the focal point and expansion was made not to retain its east coast dominance but to improve its football pedigree particularly in the south (Louisville over UConn). The ACC attempted to directly challenge the SEC only the SEC has the better football programs, the better football region (the deep south) and a more purely football motivated fan base. As evidence of this shift of power in the ACC, the latest ACC expansions and travel rules favor the football schools over the traditional tobacco roads schools. There is a new sheriff in town in the ACC and FSU/Clemson is more in the driver's seat than UNC/Duke.

There are only 2 outcomes for the ACC now. Either it will lose its big football schools or it will lose its prestigious flagship state schools (or maybe both). The current power struggle insures status quo is not an option. The problem is the ACC has lost so much of the east coast market it cannot return as the east coast conference. IMO eventually UVA will realize they have a lot more in common with Michigan than Louisville and they will move to the BIG (the fact the BIG pays an extra $15 million per year is also a nice ancillary benefit).

Why is it the last to know they have lost power is always the group who formerly held power? Tobacco road will figure this out eventually and then move to the BIG

I am not sure why you are surprised the ACC is no longer UConn's dream conference. UConn is a large prestigious flagship public university which is looking to compete in all sports. Academic and athletic balance are the core of UConn's future vision. There is a conference which is composed of similar minded schools. It is called the BIG. And yes, that is where UConn, UVA, UNC and maybe even GT/VT belong.

Our friendly BC poster claimed what the ACC did to the BE is darwinism. I disagree. Darwinism is the survival of the fittest and that means the smartest. Wanting to become the east coast team was a reasonable vision. That is not what the ACC did. The ACC was stupid in its expansion and it will eventually come home to roost against them. That is Darwinsm...

I really hope some day UConn and UVA play each other as members of the BIG. That is where we both belong now. Thanks for visiting our board.

 

[The Funster]

Come on Billybud. FSU has been in the ACC for 25 years, and you don't know why the ACC is doing what it is doing and think this is a Swofford boondoggle. I come back after being away for almost a year to see what UConn fans think of all of this drama in the Big XII that could lead to a UConn invite, and instead I find this thread debating the motives and direction of the ACC.

The ACC is not a Southern Conference, and it doesn't ever intend to be a Southern Conference. It's an East Coast Conference. There are 7 private universities (Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Wake Forest, Duke, and Miami) along with three public universities that operate like private universities (Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia Tech). All ten require high school students that want to go to college to pay very high tuition. Where do you get those? North of the Mason Dixon line and east of Ohio. It is no Swofford boondoggle that all ten of these universities want to regularly play athletic events on the road north of the mason dixon line and east of Ohio. And the remaining ACC schools (VT, NCSU,Clemson, FSU, and Louisville) are catching on from the others.

The ACC is a collection of universities. It is not a semi-pro football league. The questioning of Syracuse and Boston College is also surprising. Notre Dame's Father Jenkins direct quote, "We at Notre Dame have more alumni, more fans, and more support in New York and Massachusetts than in ALL of the midwest." Where do you think Syracuse and Boston College reside? As for the analysis of which states that the ACC owns. The combination of Notre Dame, Syracuse, and Boston College owns New York and Massachusetts. There are no other FBS schools of consequence in either state. You could argue Notre Dame isn't in the ACC, but the ACC has more of them than any other league.

There are only 2 college football teams that drive major interest in the northeast, Notre Dame and Penn State. They both bring large non-alumni fan bases. Notre Dame owns New York and New England. Penn State owns Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland. There is a little crossover with Catholics in the Penn State territory and non Catholics in the ND territory. The rest of the schools in the Northeast are primarily supported by their alumni only.

UConn has done a nice job of becoming the team in Connecticut. That's why I always saw UConn as a good fit for the ACC. Most here don't want to be in the ACC, so I'm surprised there are still threads talking about the ACC. As I read through some of these threads today, there are hardly any ACC fans left on the Boneyard like there were before.

As for FSU playing Georgia Tech, Georgia Tech specifically wants to annually play Duke, Clemson, and North Carolina in that order before ever considering anyone else other than their annual rivalry with Georgia. They have an 83 game history with Duke, an 80 game history with Clemson, and a 50 game history with North Carolina. They only have a 24 game history with FSU. You could ask to swap divisions with Miami to get GT, but you'd lose Clemson. The ACC will not be doing North-South divisions because of the desire for everyone to play north and the northern schools to play south.

There are some inconsistencies in this post. You bring no hard data as to who "owns" New York and New England other than a quote from Father Jenkins. I'll not regurgitate the volumes of data which shows that UConn has it own strong claim to NY. NY has a fairly large number of schools who have alumni present and while I'll grant that ND has fans everywhere, no one "owns" NY. It could be said that the UConn could be the lynchpin to owning NY. If the B1G or ACC were to take us, either would cement it's hold on NY. If the Big 12 takes us they get an equal share of NY. Forget about NE. BC wanted to be NE's school and they failed miserably. They don't always carry Boston itself. Thank you for the pat on the head for becoming the team in CT but we are so much more and our influence will not stop spreading throughout the NY/NE region and beyond.

You say that the ACC is not a semipro football league and then you immediately focus on football as the main thrust of your post as if it had to be to make your point. Which is it? Is the ACC a football centric league or is it more diverse? And if it is more diverse why not focus on that? You can't go down that road because it begs the question why the ACC does not have its own network. Oh wait...

Initially you trumpet ND as "owning" NY and NE and yet they aren't even a full member of your conference. Even IF ND owned NY and NE in FB as you proclaim (and they don't although they have a strong NY presence) they aren't even a member of your conference for FB although they have loose agreement with the ACC. Talk about kissing your sister.

Look, there are appealing elements to UConn joining the ACC. It has some fantastic academic institutions. Renewing rivalries with BC, Cuse and Pitt would be interesting but I'm not sure they could ever be the same. BC is sliding into irrelevance, Syracuse and Pitt have peaked and, living out on islands, are tiny territorial fiefdoms. I'm leery of joining a conference that has ND as a partial member. Been there done that. You can claim agreements with them but they'll never come to fruition. ND only cares about ND. No network is the killer though. Still, if the ACC came calling I'd hold my nose and accept.

You could extol the virtues of the ACC but if the Big 12 gets a network and you don't? Good luck.

 

[SAMCRO]

Wow, the ACC water bearers and BC felaters are suddenly showing up across the Boneyard like Syrian refugees. Close the border Fishy, close the borders.

 

[btstimpy]

Your post is proving my point, the ACC has no strategic focus. It is a rutterless ship which is more interested in ramming other boats as opposed to actually getting somewhere. If Swofford had a vision for an "east coast" conference he failed to retain the teams he needed to hold the key markets.

First off, allow me to be the first Husky fan to challenged your assertion that ND, Syracuse, and BC own NYC. Certainly there is significant numbers of alumni of those schools in NYC but UConn and Rutgers are equally, if not more, important. If you doubt UConn's influence in NYC you need only re-watch the UConn/MSU NCAA tournament game in 2014 or any Big East tournament when we were a member. As numerous prior posts have discussed, many programs have strong alumni presence in NYC but to truly own the market, the ACC needed UConn and Rutgers. Instead the ACC let them walk away. How can the ACC be the east coast team if they do not own NYC, NJ, and Connecticut?

Fast forward to Maryland. Maryland/DC is a huge metro hubb on the east coast. Yet the ACC allowed the BIG to walk in and take them? If Swofford's vision was an "east coast league" the ACC could not afford to lose Connecticut, NYC, NJ, Maryland and Washington DC.

Bottom line is Swofford attempted to change the vision of the ACC. I am surprised you haven't already reached this conclusion but Billybud's posts show he certainly understands it. As football became the big money driver the ACC shifted more toward the south and its dominant football schools. Schools like FSU and Clemson became the focal point and expansion was made not to retain its east coast dominance but to improve its football pedigree particularly in the south (Louisville over UConn). The ACC attempted to directly challenge the SEC only the SEC has the better football programs, the better football region (the deep south) and a more purely football motivated fan base. As evidence of this shift of power in the ACC, the latest ACC expansions and travel rules favor the football schools over the traditional tobacco roads schools. There is a new sheriff in town in the ACC and FSU/Clemson is more in the driver's seat than UNC/Duke.

There are only 2 outcomes for the ACC now. Either it will lose its big football schools or it will lose its prestigious flagship state schools (or maybe both). The current power struggle insures status quo is not an option. The problem is the ACC has lost so much of the east coast market it cannot return as the east coast conference. IMO eventually UVA will realize they have a lot more in common with Michigan than Louisville and they will move to the BIG (the fact the BIG pays an extra $15 million per year is also a nice ancillary benefit).

Why is it the last to know they have lost power is always the group who formerly held power? Tobacco road will figure this out eventually and then move to the BIG

I am not sure why you are surprised the ACC is no longer UConn's dream conference. UConn is a large prestigious flagship public university which is looking to compete in all sports. Academic and athletic balance are the core of UConn's future vision. There is a conference which is composed of similar minded schools. It is called the BIG. And yes, that is where UConn, UVA, UNC and maybe even GT/VT belong.

Our friendly BC poster claimed what the ACC did to the BE is darwinism. I disagree. Darwinism is the survival of the fittest and that means the smartest. Wanting to become the east coast team was a reasonable vision. That is not what the ACC did. The ACC was stupid in its expansion and it will eventually come home to roost against them. That is Darwinsm...

I really hope some day UConn and UVA play each other as members of the BIG. That is where we both belong now. Thanks for visiting our board.

The Strategic Focus is simple. Expand into regions that enable the universities in the conference better visibility to recruit students that can pay the private school tuitions and public out of state tuitions that can meet the academic standards of the schools in the league. Do so while continuing to compete athletically at the highest level. Donna Shalala taught the ACC this a long time ago. She specified New York and Massachusetts 15 years ago. Notre Dame also has specified the states of New York and Massachusetts. The ACC now has membership in New York and Massachusetts, It also has Miami and Notre Dame. That mission is accomplished. There are no other P5 schools in either state. The ACC owns New York and Massachusetts as well as can be owned in college sports.

Now I agree New York and Massachusetts is not the whole Northeast. Also note I did not say New York City. That is owned by the Giants, Jets, Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Nets, and Rangers. College football doesn't exist there really. NYU and St. John's dropped the sport. Fordham and Columbia have it on a small scale. If New Yorkers deviate from the Jets and Giants to watch college football, they watch Notre Dame. College basketball is another story. There are a lot of teams popular there in basketball. UConn is definitely one that adds value.

Regarding the Mid-Atlantic, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland are owned by Penn State in football. In basketball, there are once again many teams. I was impressed to see ND-Temple sell out out the Linc in Philly though. ND sold 77,000 at Met Life Stadium against Syracuse (no sellout, but close), sold out Heinz Field in Pittsburgh, and would also sell out Gillette if they played there. They did sell out Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium. They could do so no matter who they played. Only Penn State and Notre Dame can consistently sell out the NFL stadiums in the northeast IMO. Data does support this.

 

[btstimpy]

There are some inconsistencies in this post. You bring no hard data as to who "owns" New York and New England other than a quote from Father Jenkins. I'll not regurgitate the volumes of data which shows that UConn has it own strong claim to NY. NY has a fairly large number of schools who have alumni present and while I'll grant that ND has fans everywhere, no one "owns" NY. It could be said that the UConn could be the lynchpin to owning NY. If the B1G or ACC were to take us, either would cement it's hold on NY. If the Big 12 takes us they get an equal share of NY. Forget about NE. BC wanted to be NE's school and they failed miserably. They don't always carry Boston itself. Thank you for the pat on the head for becoming the team in CT but we are so much more and our influence will not stop spreading throughout the NY/NE region and beyond.

You say that the ACC is not a semipro football league and then you immediately focus on football as the main thrust of your post as if it had to be to make your point. Which is it? Is the ACC a football centric league or is it more diverse? And if it is more diverse why not focus on that? You can't go down that road because it begs the question why the ACC does not have its own network. Oh wait...

Initially you trumpet ND as "owning" NY and NE and yet they aren't even a full member of your conference. Even IF ND owned NY and NE in FB as you proclaim (and they don't although they have a strong NY presence) they aren't even a member of your conference for FB although they have loose agreement with the ACC. Talk about kissing your sister.

Look, there are appealing elements to UConn joining the ACC. It has some fantastic academic institutions. Renewing rivalries with BC, Cuse and Pitt would be interesting but I'm not sure they could ever be the same. BC is sliding into irrelevance, Syracuse and Pitt have peaked and, living out on islands, are tiny territorial fiefdoms. I'm leery of joining a conference that has ND as a partial member. Been there done that. You can claim agreements with them but they'll never come to fruition. ND only cares about ND. No network is the killer though. Still, if the ACC came calling I'd hold my nose and accept.

You could extol the virtues of the ACC but if the Big 12 gets a network and you don't? Good luck.

Father Jenkins didn't say New England. He said Massachusetts. I say that the ACC owns the State of New York and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts because the ACC has the only P5 members in both, and the ACC has partial Notre Dame, who is very popular in both New York and Massachusetts. I know of no other school other than perhaps Penn State that can sell out every NFL Stadium in the northeast most every time they go to them without concern for who they are playing. Notre Dame isn't a full member of the ACC, but they play the ACC more than any other conference, and they don't play Big Ten very often. They did play UMass last year. Maybe they could play them in Gillette to see how they do.

I do believe UConn owns Connecticut. I think you would be a great addition to the ACC and have thought so for a while. Your renewed rivalries with BC, Syracuse, and Pitt would be great. They have not peaked. They all have great new coaches in football that look to be taking them in a positive direction. Rutgers has peaked. It can't even recruit the best talent in its home state. And you know better than I about the Rutgers-UConn men's basketball rivalry. I can't imagine wanting to renew that.

I do honestly hope UConn gets into the P5. I came back because it's looking like there is a real shot at the Big XII. I'm not worried about a Big XII network. They have zero presence in the ACC area other than perhaps WVU. If folks in Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas, and Iowa want a channel. Fine by me. I worry about ACC football powers competing with Big XII powers. Clemson crushing Oklahoma the last two years reduces that worry.

 

[dayooper]

Regarding the Mid-Atlantic, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland are owned by Penn State in football. In basketball, there are once again many teams. I was impressed to see ND-Temple sell out out the Linc in Philly though. ND sold 77,000 at Met Life Stadium against Syracuse (no sellout, but close), sold out Heinz Field in Pittsburgh, and would also sell out Gillette if they played there. They did sell out Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium. They could do so no matter who they played. Only Penn State and Notre Dame can consistently sell out the NFL stadiums in the northeast IMO. Data does support this.

Ummm . . . Notre Dame football is not part of the ACC. Why are you bringing them up? ND - Temple doesn't even include an ACC football program.

 

[dwalks93]

The Strategic Focus is simple. Expand into regions that enable the universities in the conference better visibility to recruit students that can pay the private school tuitions and public out of state tuitions that can meet the academic standards of the schools in the league. Do so while continuing to compete athletically at the highest level. Donna Shalala taught the ACC this a long time ago. She specified New York and Massachusetts 15 years ago. Notre Dame also has specified the states of New York and Massachusetts. The ACC now has membership in New York and Massachusetts, It also has Miami and Notre Dame. That mission is accomplished. There are no other P5 schools in either state. The ACC owns New York and Massachusetts as well as can be owned in college sports.

Now I agree New York and Massachusetts is not the whole Northeast. Also note I did not say New York City. That is owned by the Giants, Jets, Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Nets, and Rangers. College football doesn't exist there really. NYU and St. John's dropped the sport. Fordham and Columbia have it on a small scale. If New Yorkers deviate from the Jets and Giants to watch college football, they watch Notre Dame. College basketball is another story. There are a lot of teams popular there in basketball. UConn is definitely one that adds value.

Regarding the Mid-Atlantic, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland are owned by Penn State in football. In basketball, there are once again many teams. I was impressed to see ND-Temple sell out out the Linc in Philly though. ND sold 77,000 at Met Life Stadium against Syracuse (no sellout, but close), sold out Heinz Field in Pittsburgh, and would also sell out Gillette if they played there. They did sell out Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium. They could do so no matter who they played. Only Penn State and Notre Dame can consistently sell out the NFL stadiums in the northeast IMO. Data does support this.

You are clearly a smart guy but there is no way you can really think PSU owns PA, NJ, DE, and Maryland? There is a reason the BIG added Rutgers and Maryland and immediately the BIG profit went through the roof. We can argue "opinion" but I submit the BIG's last revenue increase shows PSU did not own NJ and Maryland. No one was buying the BIG network in Maryland till they added Maryland, ditto on Rutger. Having fans in a region is not the same as being able to sell a network in that region. The ACC has fans up and down the east coast but they could only sell a network in VA and NC...that is why there is no ACCN. While the BIG and SEC were playing chess the ACC was playing checkers.

Eventually UVA will realize the ACC teams they care about are being marginalized. The ACC as a tobacco road lead conference no longer exist. UVA wants to play UNC, Duke, VT and GT. When the BIG makes offers for those programs they will leave together and the ACC football powers and BE leftovers will be left to battle it out.

The ACC went another direction (football playing school in the south) and UConn has moved on. If the ACC was smart they would try to grab Cincy and UConn right now but the ACC football schools would never allow it. If you want to know who has the power you need only look at who has the veto authority...FSU/Clemson > UNC/Duke...game over

BTW conference realignment has nothing to do with winning. FSU/Clemson may be better football teams than Texas/Oklahoma but if the B12 gets a network and it pays significantly more than the ACC then they will leave. Follow the money, not the wins...

And here I thought this was a UConn board..

 

[dwalks93]

"The (ACC's) Strategic Focus is simple. Expand into regions that enable the universities in the conference better visibility to recruit students that can pay the private school tuitions and public out of state tuitions that can meet the academic standards of the schools in the league."...

Ummm, the latest ACC addition was Louisville....checkmate

 

[WhartonHusky]

I think what is often lost in the discussion of New England/NY metro college football is not that the fan base support pro football, it's that there's not been a school that could rally support. Who knew that CT would become so passionate about college basketball -- mens and womens. It's the teams. It's the players. It's the stories. That's what drove the support and the passion. I remember watching UConn mens basketball in the field house at UConn.

I am a UConn alum, but have never been a big college football fan. I'd watch a bowl game or two on New Years -- but otherwise only if it was a #1 vs #2 type showdown. Then along came UConn football in the past 10 years. When they started to make noise, I started to pay attention. I went to 2-3 games/yr at the Rent. I watched 2-3 games/yr on TV. I was climbing on the bandwagon. Then they went downhill and I fell off.

Obviously we are not a blue blood in football, but I laugh when people outside the area talk about our lack of support. If Uconn were in ANY P5 conference, I'd probably have season tix. Even if we didn't achieve the success of the basketball programs, I feel strongly that there is an incredible amount of nascent support that could EASILY support a good football program and build on the success of basketball.

 

[billybud]

The Virginia fella doesn't seem to know that the ACC, like the SEC, was born of the Southern Conference...(not eastern).

The Southern Conference Charter members included UNC, Clemson, Duke, NC State, GT, Maryland and Wake Forest in addition to the teams now in the SEC.

It was a southern conference...and when it split into the SEC and the ACC....it was still southern (with Maryland being the northern border). True...most of the SEC teams were southwest of the Appalachians and many of the ACC teams were east of the appalachians...but all were considered to be southern.

The entire move to Cuse, Pitt, BC left the southern footprint. This "eastern conference" talk is only of late when the move was made to go northeast.

I, unabashedly, have never been a supporter of the ACC going north. But I guess all conferences are thinking of extra lebensraum (as HItler put it).

 

[Ldandy]

People are quoting Hitler Now? The FUQ is going on here? If that's the case maybe ESPN should play the role of Neville Chamberlin and cough up some territory Herr Delany wants to annex. That's if ESPN wants peace in our time. How's my 11th grade history Billybud?

 

[billybud]

People are quoting Hitler Now? The FUQ is going on here? If that's the case maybe ESPN should play the role of Neville Chamberlin and cough up some territory Herr Delany wants to annex. That's if ESPN wants peace in our time. How's my 11th grade history Billybud?

lebensraum....close fit for CR

additional territory considered by a nation, especially Nazi Germany, to be necessary for national survival or for the expansion of trade. 2. any additional space needed in order to act, function, etc.

 

[billybud]

If Delaney is cast in your allegory as Hitler, he would be served to remember that moving on two fronts may end with a pistol shot.

Just avoid a Leningrad in the cold, cold east.

 

[Fishy]

The parts of New York State that matter do not give a fig about Syracuse.

It's not a flag ship school and it's so freaking far away - the University of Maryland is closer to mid-town than Syracuse.

The ACC lost more territory than it gained in the recent expansion. Might explain the current state of the ACC Network.