Lifted from Cincy's CR Board

[mavblues]

This guy (MSMoose) claims to have some sort of insider access.

http://cincinnati.247sports.com/Boa...Realignment-Thread-43339748?Page=13#M43510794

Feb 5, 12:19 PM


Interesting how the Big 12 Expansion Committee proposes a Conference Network versus how the PAC 12, Big Ten, and SEC are operated. Each is different in its own right from the PAC 12 owning 100% to the Big Ten split ownership with FOX Sports, to ESPN owning the SEC. The Big 12 proposed network is join venture, similar to the Big Ten, however with a few differences;
The Big 12 Network ownership would be split three ways, between Network of choice, Texas, and the Big 12. This allows Texas to be made whole, after exiting the LHN, with the ability to increase revenue long term. Granted certain contractual agreements within would not allows Texas profits to increase at a higher percentage than the remainder of the Big 12. Interesting proposal which takes the burden off of the Big 12 members, yet allows Texas to be made whole. ESPN would also benefit as a minority partner in a joint venture with the primary network owner. More to follow on this later.

As for expansion, the I dig into it the more the intent of the Big 12 Expansion Committee is to balance the Big 12 versus the SEC, while leaving room to grow. Granted market size, academics, research, history, and five million other things play a part on this, the primary point is the Big 12 will be sure to protect its close relationship with the SEC. The two conferences have a great relationship in the form of the Sugar Bowl agreement, as well conference basketball challenge, and scheduling. The two conferences also agree on Autonomy issues, and general direction of college athletics. So as I have stated in the past, the optimal end game for the Big 12 is 14 members, for a host of reasons;
Divisional split is easier.
Continuation of rivalries is easier.
Level playing field with the Big Ten and SEC.
More market size for a conference network.
Better matchups with the SEC for cross-sports challenges.
Reduction of travel issues.

Cincinnati, UCONN, and USF all fit the Big 12 profile. Granted UConn needs to elevate its football program, however UCONN has a strong argument that inclusion in the Big 12 would do this, not to mention offer opportunities for games in New York. USF for its sake has created quite a plan for facilities with some being contingent on Big 12 invite. All three are strong Academically, and R1 Research Universities, with great growth plans, and strong markets.

The 14th spot is of interest. BYU has a strong case, but in the end how does BYU help the Big 12? Yes, they are a national brand, but their inclusion causes a range of issues, travel, Sunday play, etc. Memphis lacks the Academic and Research prowess to entice Big 12 Presidents, the same goes for UCF. Temple is interesting, strong academically, R1 Research University, major market, fits geographically, but has cut athletics, and is struggling with facility upgrades. Temple could make a case similar to USF in that if included we will do A+B+C+D, etc. Then the argument comes back to UCF, large market with tremendous potential, can the Big 12 grow them? UCF alleviates leaving USF on an island. However, does UCF inclusion hurt USF in terms of being so geographically close? Some like Tulane, but are they committed to growing athletics? Tulane academically and research wise fits.

Who will be the 14th member? This I believe is why the Big 12 will take a two pronged approach to expansion, by expanding to 12, then later to 14. Wait and see what happens with the ACC and the ACCN, maybe the ACC dissolves? Expand to 12, build the network, add the CCG, and then wait.

 

[Hoophound]

This guy (MSMoose) claims to have some sort of insider access.

http://cincinnati. /Board/39/Contents/Swingtime-February-2016-Realignment-Thread-43339748?Page=13#M43510794

Feb 5, 12:19 PM


Interesting how the Big 12 Expansion Committee proposes a Conference Network versus how the PAC 12, Big Ten, and SEC are operated. Each is different in its own right from the PAC 12 owning 100% to the Big Ten split ownership with FOX Sports, to ESPN owning the SEC. The Big 12 proposed network is join venture, similar to the Big Ten, however with a few differences;
The Big 12 Network ownership would be split three ways, between Network of choice, Texas, and the Big 12. This allows Texas to be made whole, after exiting the LHN, with the ability to increase revenue long term. Granted certain contractual agreements within would not allows Texas profits to increase at a higher percentage than the remainder of the Big 12. Interesting proposal which takes the burden off of the Big 12 members, yet allows Texas to be made whole. ESPN would also benefit as a minority partner in a joint venture with the primary network owner. More to follow on this later.

As for expansion, the I dig into it the more the intent of the Big 12 Expansion Committee is to balance the Big 12 versus the SEC, while leaving room to grow. Granted market size, academics, research, history, and five million other things play a part on this, the primary point is the Big 12 will be sure to protect its close relationship with the SEC. The two conferences have a great relationship in the form of the Sugar Bowl agreement, as well conference basketball challenge, and scheduling. The two conferences also agree on Autonomy issues, and general direction of college athletics. So as I have stated in the past, the optimal end game for the Big 12 is 14 members, for a host of reasons;
Divisional split is easier.
Continuation of rivalries is easier.
Level playing field with the Big Ten and SEC.
More market size for a conference network.
Better matchups with the SEC for cross-sports challenges.
Reduction of travel issues.

Cincinnati, UCONN, and USF all fit the Big 12 profile. Granted UConn needs to elevate its football program, however UCONN has a strong argument that inclusion in the Big 12 would do this, not to mention offer opportunities for games in New York. USF for its sake has created quite a plan for facilities with some being contingent on Big 12 invite. All three are strong Academically, and R1 Research Universities, with great growth plans, and strong markets.

The 14th spot is of interest. BYU has a strong case, but in the end how does BYU help the Big 12? Yes, they are a national brand, but their inclusion causes a range of issues, travel, Sunday play, etc. Memphis lacks the Academic and Research prowess to entice Big 12 Presidents, the same goes for UCF. Temple is interesting, strong academically, R1 Research University, major market, fits geographically, but has cut athletics, and is struggling with facility upgrades. Temple could make a case similar to USF in that if included we will do A+B+C+D, etc. Then the argument comes back to UCF, large market with tremendous potential, can the Big 12 grow them? UCF alleviates leaving USF on an island. However, does UCF inclusion hurt USF in terms of being so geographically close? Some like Tulane, but are they committed to growing athletics? Tulane academically and research wise fits.

Who will be the 14th member? This I believe is why the Big 12 will take a two pronged approach to expansion, by expanding to 12, then later to 14. Wait and see what happens with the ACC and the ACCN, maybe the ACC dissolves? Expand to 12, build the network, add the CCG, and then wait.

If this is the case, we go before USF. We are the only school in the group with a chance to go anywhere but the Big 12. There is no way the ACC would pass us over for Cincy because they want a network. We need to be taken off the table or we might be gone later.

No chance any other P5 takes USF/UCF. The ACC and SEC have better brands in Florida. The Big 10 wouldn't touch them. The B12 can wait on entering Florida. I'd say our biggest issue is BYU. I consider Cincy a lock.

 

[ct06111]

I don't think the big12 should spread itself across 3 times zones.

For a network, they should stick with just central and eastern time zone teams.
No BYU.

 

[Glastonhusky]

This guy (MSMoose) claims to have some sort of insider access.

http://cincinnati. /Board/39/Contents/Swingtime-February-2016-Realignment-Thread-43339748?Page=13#M43510794

Feb 5, 12:19 PM


Interesting how the Big 12 Expansion Committee proposes a Conference Network versus how the PAC 12, Big Ten, and SEC are operated. Each is different in its own right from the PAC 12 owning 100% to the Big Ten split ownership with FOX Sports, to ESPN owning the SEC. The Big 12 proposed network is join venture, similar to the Big Ten, however with a few differences;
The Big 12 Network ownership would be split three ways, between Network of choice, Texas, and the Big 12. This allows Texas to be made whole, after exiting the LHN, with the ability to increase revenue long term. Granted certain contractual agreements within would not allows Texas profits to increase at a higher percentage than the remainder of the Big 12. Interesting proposal which takes the burden off of the Big 12 members, yet allows Texas to be made whole. ESPN would also benefit as a minority partner in a joint venture with the primary network owner. More to follow on this later.

As for expansion, the I dig into it the more the intent of the Big 12 Expansion Committee is to balance the Big 12 versus the SEC, while leaving room to grow. Granted market size, academics, research, history, and five million other things play a part on this, the primary point is the Big 12 will be sure to protect its close relationship with the SEC. The two conferences have a great relationship in the form of the Sugar Bowl agreement, as well conference basketball challenge, and scheduling. The two conferences also agree on Autonomy issues, and general direction of college athletics. So as I have stated in the past, the optimal end game for the Big 12 is 14 members, for a host of reasons;
Divisional split is easier.
Continuation of rivalries is easier.
Level playing field with the Big Ten and SEC.
More market size for a conference network.
Better matchups with the SEC for cross-sports challenges.
Reduction of travel issues.

Cincinnati, UCONN, and USF all fit the Big 12 profile. Granted UConn needs to elevate its football program, however UCONN has a strong argument that inclusion in the Big 12 would do this, not to mention offer opportunities for games in New York. USF for its sake has created quite a plan for facilities with some being contingent on Big 12 invite. All three are strong Academically, and R1 Research Universities, with great growth plans, and strong markets.

The 14th spot is of interest. BYU has a strong case, but in the end how does BYU help the Big 12? Yes, they are a national brand, but their inclusion causes a range of issues, travel, Sunday play, etc. Memphis lacks the Academic and Research prowess to entice Big 12 Presidents, the same goes for UCF. Temple is interesting, strong academically, R1 Research University, major market, fits geographically, but has cut athletics, and is struggling with facility upgrades. Temple could make a case similar to USF in that if included we will do A+B+C+D, etc. Then the argument comes back to UCF, large market with tremendous potential, can the Big 12 grow them? UCF alleviates leaving USF on an island. However, does UCF inclusion hurt USF in terms of being so geographically close? Some like Tulane, but are they committed to growing athletics? Tulane academically and research wise fits.

Who will be the 14th member? This I believe is why the Big 12 will take a two pronged approach to expansion, by expanding to 12, then later to 14. Wait and see what happens with the ACC and the ACCN, maybe the ACC dissolves? Expand to 12, build the network, add the CCG, and then wait.

Interesting, no mention of Houston

 

[uchusky32]

Interesting, no mention of Houston

Does Houston really get more people to watch in Texas? If I'm a Houston fan aren't I already watching Texas teams play anyways?

 

[BoatShow]

Houston is just so redundant and in a city with over 2 million they can barely get 35k people to come to football games because NO ONE CARES

 

[nelsonmuntz]

There is no way they add 4 without BYU being one of them.

 

[Chin Diesel]

The time zone point is legitimate but it can be managed. Most of the Big12 is already Central Time which means a +/- 1 zone for those teams. It would really only affect Eastern teams ayinh BYU or BYU heading east. You can mitigate that with weekend trips.

BYU not playing on Sundays actually helps mitigate the problem. Use Saturday games as much as possible for the games involving Eastern time Zone teams and BYU regardless if the game is in Provo or in the East.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

BYU not playing Sundays is so easy to schedule around in a 14 or even 12 team conference that it is close to irrelevant.

I don't see the Big 12 expanding into Florida. Between the ACC and SEC, there isn't really an opening for another program in that state. Houston is more valuable, because it would go right at Texas A&M. My bigger concern is that when you see "USF to the Big 12" stories, it feels more like some message board poster's opinion than anything that the Big 12 is considering. The Cincinnati "insider" loses a little credibility with a post like that, which makes me wonder how serious the Big 12 is about expansion at all.

 

[Slasher]

Houston is just so redundant and in a city with over 2 million they can barely get 35k people to come to football games because NO ONE CARES

6.5 million in the metro area. Proves your point even more so.

 

[Dooley]

UH would be a complete non-starter for me. If B12 programs can't recruit Houston area kids, then that is 100% on them, not the perceived weakness of the conference. Adding UH would do nothing to improve the conference recruiting...it would only improve UH recruiting. And there are already enough mouths to feed in TX and OK that would not and should not want yet another school inside their home recruiting footprint that is on equal conference footing as they are to steal more recruits from them. The only possible way I see UH added is if enough Texas politicians cry and moan over their being left out and force them down the B12's throat (as a 16th member).

What this guy says is exactly the playbook I've been saying: take the top options that could possibly be ACCN options off the table first (UConn + Cinci) and see if you can launch a B12N with 12. The foundation is already there with the LHN, it's just a matter of T3 rights and making the transfer to a B12N. If still not enough for a B12N, add USF and BYU. That leaves the ACC with next to no options to expand should the miraculous day ever come that ND joins full-time and they need a 16th. Temple, Memphis, UCF, UH do not move an ACCN needle whatsoever. And if they can't get an ACCN off the ground already with FSU/Clemson and a slew of mediocre northeast sports, then chances are pretty good that they won't get one launched in 10 years either. I think there is only enough money for one network and the B12 and ACC are going to have to fight it out to see who can launch first. If it's a B12N, then the B12 can sit back and wait for the ACC to disband in 2025. At that point, they can add FSU, Clemson, UL, and Miami and have a football conference very much on par with the SEC. Some of the mid-Atlantic ACC schools will go to the B1G and some will go SEC and the rest will get on their knees in front of us for a change and beg for admittance back into the club that they didn't deserve to be in in the first place.

 

[pj]

There is no way they add 4 without BYU being one of them.

Yes there is. Cincy, UConn, USF, UCF.

BYU not playing Sundays is so easy to schedule around in a 14 or even 12 team conference that it is close to irrelevant.

I don't see the Big 12 expanding into Florida. Between the ACC and SEC, there isn't really an opening for another program in that state. Houston is more valuable, because it would go right at Texas A&M. My bigger concern is that when you see "USF to the Big 12" stories, it feels more like some message board poster's opinion than anything that the Big 12 is considering. The Cincinnati "insider" loses a little credibility with a post like that, which makes me wonder how serious the Big 12 is about expansion at all.

Not playing on Sundays is a strong reason to invite BYU football only. It impacts other sports, especially basketball (e.g. B12 tourney concludes on Sunday).

Houston is the #6 program in the state of Texas whereas USF and UCF are #4 and #5 in Florida. The country as a whole has 4.9 million people per P5 program (319 million people, 65 P5 programs) and most states that have a P5 program have about 4 million people per program. Texas and Florida are sufficientliy football-mad that they can support that number of P5 programs. That works out to 5-6 P5 programs in Texas and 4-5 P5 programs in Florida. The next P5 program should come from Florida rather than Texas, and the choice between #5 in Florida and #6 in Texas is a wash. But the B12 already has 4 Texas schools and no Florida schools. It should seek critical mass in Florida and favor USF and UCF both ahead of Houston. and

 

[don356]

The only issue is nothing the b12 does seems to make any sense so why would they change.

 

[BlueHen]

Yes there is. Cincy, UConn, USF, UCF.



Not playing on Sundays is a strong reason to invite BYU football only. It impacts other sports, especially basketball (e.g. B12 tourney concludes on Sunday).

Houston is the #6 program in the state of Texas whereas USF and UCF are #4 and #5 in Florida. The country as a whole has 4.9 million people per P5 program (319 million people, 65 P5 programs) and most states that have a P5 program have about 4 million people per program. Texas and Florida are sufficientliy football-mad that they can support that number of P5 programs. That works out to 5-6 P5 programs in Texas and 4-5 P5 programs in Florida. The next P5 program should come from Florida rather than Texas, and the choice between #5 in Florida and #6 in Texas is a wash. But the B12 already has 4 Texas schools and no Florida schools. It should seek critical mass in Florida and favor USF and UCF both ahead of Houston. and

Good post. I also think the Big XII should look at least at Temple instead of one of the Florida teams. I know Philly is a pro sports town, but it is a big market and people will support Temple if it wins. It also takes away a potential ACC add. The ACC already has two Florida teams, unlikely they add a third.

 

[UConnJim]

BYU not playing Sundays is so easy to schedule around in a 14 or even 12 team conference that it is close to irrelevant..

BYU is a non-starter for the Big 12 as a full member due to the Sunday restrictions. That impacts virtually every sport except football. Could BYU be a football only member? Yes. A full member? No.

 

[UCFBfan]

Good post. I also think the Big XII should look at least at Temple instead of one of the Florida teams. I know Philly is a pro sports town, but it is a big market and people will support Temple if it wins. It also takes away a potential ACC add. The ACC already has two Florida teams, unlikely they add a third.

This is an interesting point. Temple would only really make sense if they were being smart and serious with a Big12 Network. Getting UConn and Temple gives them a foothold in the NYC/Philly area as well as some spill over towards DC though not really close. This would be the smartest move UConn/Temple in terms of getting a network off the ground and in as many households as possible. It would also block the ACC completely out of the NYC/Philly area. Syracuse and Pitt don't have enough pull in either of those areas.

That being said, I can't see it happening and seeing how Cincy seems to be a lock for whatever reason, I don't see the Big 12 going to 14. So it's likely going to be Cincy and a plus one. Hopefully we're the plus one.

 

[tzznandrew]

Until I see evidence otherwise, my sense is that Temple doesn't pull Philly enough to justify this. The city is divided amongst 5 basketball schools, and for football they're PSU fans.

I mean, a lot may have changed but they were thrown out of the old Big East.

 

[BoatShow]

Big12 East
UConn
Cincy
Temple
WVU
ISU
Kansas
KState

Wouldn't hate that. Still not sure I believe in Temple though.

 

[UC1995]

Big12 East
UConn
Cincy
Temple
WVU
ISU
Kansas
KState

Wouldn't hate that. Still not sure I believe in Temple though.

Why would The Big 12 agree to adding teams and a conference championship when the weakest teams are all in one division? That would prove their stupidity as a conference.

 

[BoatShow]

Why would The Big 12 agree to adding teams and a conference championship when the weakest teams are all in one division? That would prove their stupidity as a conference.

Because it wouldn't ever happen?

 

[CallMeBruce]

Why would The Big 12 agree to adding teams and a conference championship when the weakest teams are all in one division? That would prove their stupidity as a conference.

You might want to take a look at the Big XII's conference split circa 2010.

 

[Stinger92860]

Until I see evidence otherwise, my sense is that Temple doesn't pull Philly enough to justify this. The city is divided amongst 5 basketball schools, and for football they're PSU fans.

I mean, a lot may have changed but they were thrown out of the old Big East.

They are Eagle fans.

 

[tzznandrew]

They are Eagle fans.

Yes. I meant whatever little pull there is for college football.

 

[Ldandy]

Until I see evidence otherwise, my sense is that Temple doesn't pull Philly enough to justify this. The city is divided amongst 5 basketball schools, and for football they're PSU fans.

I mean, a lot may have changed but they were thrown out of the old Big East.

I do believe that Temple is more committed to football success than they were a decade ago, but I see no evidence that they will do whatever is necessary to gain entry into a P5 Conference. They are a city school with a small and fickle fan base. Winning 6-9 games a year is not going to galvanize support behind them in a city like Philly.

As you pointed out already they share fan interest with other small private schools such as Nova and St Joe's, not to mention regional powers like Penn State and ND. Heck even Rutgers has some pull in South Philly. Temple is essentially where they belong. If they can retain Rhule and get that right sized stadium built for their fan base, they will have a real shot at being a consistently strong G5 Performer.

They will never deliver enough viewership to justify a share in any future Big 12 Conference. The only team that would ever get Center City Philadelphia to tune into a Big 12 Network is The Eagles. Total non starter.

 

[pj]

The only team that would ever get Center City Philadelphia to tune into a Big 12 Network is The Eagles. Total non starter.

Agreed. Why should the Eagles step down from the NFL to college? It would mean a significant drop in income for players, coaches, and cheerleaders.