Irish fan on why UConn belongs in the ACC

[Yawkey Way]

So then Notre Dame is a full me

They could. Duke and Stanford are ranked well ahead of Cornell academically and ahead of Penn. Those schools should get off their high horse and get on the gridiron so somebody can know who they are. Duke went to the Chick Fil A Bowl last year, and Stanford the Rose.

mber of the ACC in all sports, including football?

College sports, neither advances, nor diminishes ,the value of college degrees over the long haul, imo. College sports success does give an uptick in the quality of applicants that Admissions Depts pour through... this much is true, but few employers are evaluating applicants before them in interviews by whether or not their school football or basketball team is winning or losing. Duke could go 0-13 for the next 10 years in football, but a Duke recent grad is probably going to get the job if he or she is up against an Alabama grad, all other things being equal..... as for the Ivies, their schools don't need major colllege football for anything at all,. Harvard's ( for just one example ) annual endowment which is made up of millions of dollars, dwarfs that of most colleges playing major college football. Harvard's annual endowment is double that of Stanford's, 5 times that of Notre Dame, and 6-20 times more than most others playing major college football.

 

[upstater]

College sports, neither advances, nor diminishes ,the value of college degrees over the long haul, imo. College sports success does give an uptick in the quality of applicants that Admissions Depts pour through... this much is true, but few employers are evaluating applicants before them in interviews by whether or not their school football or basketball team is winning or losing. Duke could go 0-13 for the next 10 years in football, but a Duke recent grad is probably going to get the job if he or she is up against an Alabama grad, all other things being equal..... as for the Ivies, their schools don't need major colllege football for anything at all,. Harvard's ( for just oneexample ) annual endowment made up of billions of dollars, dwarfs that of most colleges playing major college football.

Andrew Zimbalist would beg to differ. He shows that certain academic institutions are helped by sports. Schools like Boise St., or Notre Dame, or heck the Flutie effect at BC. Others are hurt by it. After all, someone wins, someone loses, and sometimes the losing schools develop a reputation, a kind of loser's stink, that hurts applications. This eventually impacts academics. I would also add that Zimbalist thinks the majority of schools pouring money into sports are not helped by it. You have to WIN! Then you're helped. And lastly, college applications are rising by more than double digits (closer to 20%) year-on-year at many state institutions even without bigtime sports. most of this has to do with the electronic common app and the willingness of students now to attend state schools out-of-state.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Andrew Zimbalist would beg to differ. He shows that certain academic institutions are helped by sports. Schools like Boise St., or Notre Dame, or heck the Flutie effect at BC. Others are hurt by it. After all, someone wins, someone loses, and sometimes the losing schools develop a reputation, a kind of loser's stink, that hurts applications. This eventually impacts academics. I would also add that Zimbalist thinks the majority of schools pouring money into sports are not helped by it. You have to WIN! Then you're helped. And lastly, college applications are rising by more than double digits (closer to 20%) year-on-year at many state institutions even without bigtime sports. most of this has to do with the electronic common app and the willingness of students now to attend state schools out-of-state.

True... I did acknowledge schools do get momentary upticks in apps to their schools, and the pool of applicants abilities does rise, but by and large, "over the long haul ", its mostly insignificant in the values of these degrees, which after all, the " value " of which is determined by employers.

 

[upstater]

True... I did acknowledge schools do get momentary upticks in apps to their schools, and the pool of applicants abilities does rise, but by and large, "over the long haul ", its mostly insignificant in the values of these degrees, which after all, the " value " of which is determined by employers.

The value is determined by the holders. You'll find very high satisfaction with alum from liberal arts colleges. But in terms of earnings, they trail the more high powered research institutions. It's also true that if you're attracting better students, your academic profile will rise. That being said, yes academic affiliations on the basis of sports are insignificant and it's really wishful thinking to believe that your profile is going to improve on the back of sports. The reverse can happen (Rutgers has been plummeting in the rankings even as it has been pouring money into athletics).

 

[Yawkey Way]

The value is determined by the holders. You'll find very high satisfaction with alum from liberal arts colleges. But in terms of earnings, they trail the more high powered research institutions. It's also true that if you're attracting better students, your academic profile will rise. That being said, yes academic affiliations on the basis of sports are insignificant and it's really wishful thinking to believe that your profile is going to improve on the back of sports. The reverse can happen (Rutgers has been plummeting in the rankings even as it has been pouring money into athletics).

Good, and valid points... as somewhat related, I read an interesting book ( wish I could remember the name of it now), maybe 10 years or so ago, about the development of the Univ. of Texas rise in Academic standings from a once backwater, rural school to one with more Academic national stature that it possess today. The discovery of oil in that neck of the woods no doubt helped make a few rich there in Texas, and naturally that oil money flowed later with benefactors to Austin... but the book went on to explain that the Univ.Texas at Austin itself made a conscious effort itself to invest in a football program that it believed was something that could elevate their school nationally in football, but as a secondary benefit, it would increase its national footprint as a University, instead of being just a local, regional school. It worked even better than they had hoped. The emergence of Texas as a football national power even brought eastern professors out to their school to teach, something unheard of in earlier beginnings. Some of this was the national migration westward, and better transportation to get to and from Austin and those factors as influences,, but the book does credit the football at this school as a significant factor as well that helped elevate the school's national academic standing. So insofar as the Univ. of Texas at Austin is concerned anyway, there is merit in what some say, ie that sports can elevate a schools Academic national stature.

 

[upstater]

Good, and valid points... as somewhat related, I read an interesting book ( wish I could remember the name of it now), maybe 10 years or so ago, about the development of the Univ. of Texas rise in Academic standings from a once backwater, rural school to one with more Academic national stature that it possess today. The discovery of oil in that neck of the woods no doubt helped make a few rich there in Texas, and naturally that oil money flowed later with benefactors to Austin... but the book went on to explain that the Univ.Texas at Austin itself made a conscious effort itself to invest in a football program that it believed was something that could elevate their school nationally in football, but as a secondary benefit, it would increase its national footprint as a University, instead of being just a local, regional school. It worked even better than they had hoped. The emergence of Texas as a football national power even brought eastern professors out to their school to teach, something unheard of in earlier beginnings. Some of this was the national migration westward, and better transportation to get to and from Austin and those factors as influences,, but the book does credit the football at this school as a significant factor as well that helped elevate the school's national academic standing. So insofar as the Univ. of Texas at Austin is concerned anyway, there is merit in what some say, ie that sports can elevate a schools Academic national stature.

I am not a big believer in such theories. For a couple of reasons. One, these schools had big football programs prior to the late 1950s. It was in the late 1950s that many of the state schools in the 1920s grew out of regional schools to become big state and national institutions. And it wasn't because of football. It was because of the Cold War and the huge investment in research in that time, which coincided with the GI Bill. If you looked at American higher ed in the 1930s and 1940s, it looked like finishing school, for well mannered bluebloods. The aftermath of WW2 brought a new intensity to higher education, and he filthy masses entered the ivory towers for the first time. That changed everything.

 

[BlueHen]

They could. Duke and Stanford are ranked well ahead of Cornell academically and ahead of Penn. Those schools should get off their high horse and get on the gridiron so somebody can know who they are. Duke went to the Chick Fil A Bowl last year, and Stanford the Rose.

Huh? People know who they are, elevating their respective football programs isn't going to make them anymore well known.

 

[BlueHen]

ACC people, door is over there. Please exit.

Bunch of two-facers. Good luck with Syracuse, BC....and Temple!

If UConn gets an invite to the ACC them I will be an ACC fan. Until then, screw 'em. The ACC has had multiple opportunities to add UConn and has passed every time. I'm glad that some ACC fans think we belong, but I am tired of them coming on here telling us how the great ACC is, how great Notre Dame is, how much the B1G sucks and how much Rutgers sucks.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

I am not a big believer in such theories. For a couple of reasons. One, these schools had big football programs prior to the late 1950s. It was in the late 1950s that many of the state schools in the 1920s grew out of regional schools to become big state and national institutions. And it wasn't because of football. It was because of the Cold War and the huge investment in research in that time, which coincided with the GI Bill. If you looked at American higher ed in the 1930s and 1940s, it looked like finishing school, for well mannered bluebloods. The aftermath of WW2 brought a new intensity to higher education, and he filthy masses entered the ivory towers for the first time. That changed everything.

The reason you've heard of Purdue but maybe not Bowling Green is athletics period. Their conference membership started solely for sports.

Here's my question though: why didn't the Ivy league's academic reputation suffer back when they were good at football?

 

[Adios]

The reason you've heard of Purdue but maybe not Bowling Green is athletics period. Their conference membership started solely for sports.

Here's my question though: why didn't the Ivy league's academic reputation suffer back when they were good at football?

Bowling Green also plays D1 athletics....

 

[Seaa Blue]

The reason you've heard of Purdue but maybe not Bowling Green is athletics period?

Neil Armstrong and the 25 other Purdue grads that have flown in space beg to differ.

 

[Yawkey Way]

you looked at American higher ed in the 1930s and 1940s, it looked like finishing school, for well mannered bluebloods. The aftermath of WW2 brought a new intensity to higher education, and he filthy masses entered the ivory towers for the first time. That changed everything.

Yes, the post WW2 generation that came back from the War benefitted from the GI Bill.

Fast forward to today and its a changed dynamic so much that the last US Census figures find we have approx. 120,000 full time janitors with 4 year college degrees. So something has gone off the rails with that stastistic... as thats not good by any measure..

 

[MSNDfan]

If UConn gets an invite to the ACC them I will be an ACC fan. Until then, screw 'em. The ACC has had multiple opportunities to add UConn and has passed every time. I'm glad that some ACC fans think we belong, but I am tired of them coming on here telling us how the great ACC is, how great Notre Dame is, how much the B1G sucks and how much Rutgers sucks.

Some fans of ACC schools, including ND, come here to say they feel UConn belongs in the ACC, and your attitude is 'screw the ACC' until we get in.

Not very friendly, is it? Especially when you are as defensive of the BeeOneGee and Rutgers as if you were in the former because the latter demanded you be admitted.

But UConn is not in the BeeOneGee, and only the naive think Rutgers has anyone involved with its sports who wants to share its NYC area status in the BeeOneGee with UConn, which would outshine poor pitiful Rutgers embarrassingly easily.

And why does such a common, for this UConn board anyway, pattern of openly despising the ACC bother those of who who have said we think UConn belongs in the ACC? Because one thing that conference commissioners and school ADs have learned from the past few years is that the opinions and attitudes of fans online matter. They matter so much that should the Big 12 come apart, and both the ACC and SEC expand to 16, WVU will get an invite from neither. The main reason is that WVU fans online have so befouled the reputation of the sports programs they love that nobody wants to get near them.

If UConn fans get a reputation for bitterness morphing into a WVU level of hatred for the ACC, then there may be little that UConn administrators can do to overcome the new bad reputation of UConn fans.

Now if UConn were absolutely certain of an invite from the BeeOneGee, and/or the Big 12, that might not be so bad. But any potential limiting of options in this climate is not the most wise path.

 

[upstater]

Yes, the post WW2 generation that came back from the War benefitted from the GI Bill.

Fast forward to today and its a changed dynamic so much that the last US Census figures find we have approx. 120,000 full time janitors with 4 year college degrees. So something has gone off the rails with that stastistic... as thats not good by any measure..

We're getting into a whole other discussion, but more than just the WW2s benefited from GI Bill. It transformed higher ed.

The USA was a surplus country back then, but that changed in the mid 1970s, so the economic question about janitors really isn't related.

 

[upstater]

Some fans of ACC schools, including ND, come here to say they feel UConn belongs in the ACC, and your attitude is 'screw the ACC' until we get in.

Not very friendly, is it? Especially when you are as defensive of the BeeOneGee and Rutgers as if you were in the former because the latter demanded you be admitted.

But UConn is not in the BeeOneGee, and only the naive think Rutgers has anyone involved with its sports who wants to share its NYC area status in the BeeOneGee with UConn, which would outshine poor pitiful Rutgers embarrassingly easily.

And why does such a common, for this UConn board anyway, pattern of openly despising the ACC bother those of who who have said we think UConn belongs in the ACC? Because one thing that conference commissioners and school ADs have learned from the past few years is that the opinions and attitudes of fans online matter. They matter so much that should the Big 12 come apart, and both the ACC and SEC expand to 16, WVU will get an invite from neither. The main reason is that WVU fans online have so befouled the reputation of the sports programs they love that nobody wants to get near them.

If UConn fans get a reputation for bitterness morphing into a WVU level of hatred for the ACC, then there may be little that UConn administrators can do to overcome the new bad reputation of UConn fans.

Now if UConn were absolutely certain of an invite from the BeeOneGee, and/or the Big 12, that might not be so bad. But any potential limiting of options in this climate is not the most wise path.

STFU. bitter enough?

 

[upstater]

The reason you've heard of Purdue but maybe not Bowling Green is athletics period. Their conference membership started solely for sports.

Here's my question though: why didn't the Ivy league's academic reputation suffer back when they were good at football?

Who hasn't heard of Bowling Green?

And, what era are you talking about when the Ivy's were good?

 

[noeynox]

Some fans of ACC schools, including ND, come here to say they feel UConn belongs in the ACC, and your attitude is 'screw the ACC' until we get in.

Not very friendly, is it? Especially when you are as defensive of the BeeOneGee and Rutgers as if you were in the former because the latter demanded you be admitted.

But UConn is not in the BeeOneGee, and only the naive think Rutgers has anyone involved with its sports who wants to share its NYC area status in the BeeOneGee with UConn, which would outshine poor pitiful Rutgers embarrassingly easily.

And why does such a common, for this UConn board anyway, pattern of openly despising the ACC bother those of who who have said we think UConn belongs in the ACC? Because one thing that conference commissioners and school ADs have learned from the past few years is that the opinions and attitudes of fans online matter. They matter so much that should the Big 12 come apart, and both the ACC and SEC expand to 16, WVU will get an invite from neither. The main reason is that WVU fans online have so befouled the reputation of the sports programs they love that nobody wants to get near them.

If UConn fans get a reputation for bitterness morphing into a WVU level of hatred for the ACC, then there may be little that UConn administrators can do to overcome the new bad reputation of UConn fans.

Now if UConn were absolutely certain of an invite from the BeeOneGee, and/or the Big 12, that might not be so bad. But any potential limiting of options in this climate is not the most wise path.

This is stupid. This sheet is all anonymous. Anyone can post here B/S, and claim they are UConn fans. Many UConn fans believe the ACC is our most natural fit. If you can make it happen, don't let us stop you.

 

[Adios]

Some fans of ACC schools, including ND, come here to say they feel UConn belongs in the ACC, and your attitude is 'screw the ACC' until we get in.

Not very friendly, is it? Especially when you are as defensive of the BeeOneGee and Rutgers as if you were in the former because the latter demanded you be admitted.

But UConn is not in the BeeOneGee, and only the naive think Rutgers has anyone involved with its sports who wants to share its NYC area status in the BeeOneGee with UConn, which would outshine poor pitiful Rutgers embarrassingly easily.

And why does such a common, for this UConn board anyway, pattern of openly despising the ACC bother those of who who have said we think UConn belongs in the ACC? Because one thing that conference commissioners and school ADs have learned from the past few years is that the opinions and attitudes of fans online matter. They matter so much that should the Big 12 come apart, and both the ACC and SEC expand to 16, WVU will get an invite from neither. The main reason is that WVU fans online have so befouled the reputation of the sports programs they love that nobody wants to get near them.

If UConn fans get a reputation for bitterness morphing into a WVU level of hatred for the ACC, then there may be little that UConn administrators can do to overcome the new bad reputation of UConn fans.

Now if UConn were absolutely certain of an invite from the BeeOneGee, and/or the Big 12, that might not be so bad. But any potential limiting of options in this climate is not the most wise path.

God Almighty. What a melodramatic person you are. Who gives a duckk. We have more championships in sports other than football than ND. As you've seen, we're gladly welcomed by many in your beloved Big 10 and many of us want to go there. Have fun with Louisville and Clemson. And Syracuse and Boston College. And Temple.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Neil Armstrong and the 25 other Purdue grads that have flown in space beg to differ.

Are you arguing my point or did you mean to wiki up the famous alumni of Rose-Hulman?

 

[BlueHen]

Some fans of ACC schools, including ND, come here to say they feel UConn belongs in the ACC, and your attitude is 'screw the ACC' until we get in.

Not very friendly, is it? Especially when you are as defensive of the BeeOneGee and Rutgers as if you were in the former because the latter demanded you be admitted.

But UConn is not in the BeeOneGee, and only the naive think Rutgers has anyone involved with its sports who wants to share its NYC area status in the BeeOneGee with UConn, which would outshine poor pitiful Rutgers embarrassingly easily.

And why does such a common, for this UConn board anyway, pattern of openly despising the ACC bother those of who who have said we think UConn belongs in the ACC? Because one thing that conference commissioners and school ADs have learned from the past few years is that the opinions and attitudes of fans online matter. They matter so much that should the Big 12 come apart, and both the ACC and SEC expand to 16, WVU will get an invite from neither. The main reason is that WVU fans online have so befouled the reputation of the sports programs they love that nobody wants to get near them.

If UConn fans get a reputation for bitterness morphing into a WVU level of hatred for the ACC, then there may be little that UConn administrators can do to overcome the new bad reputation of UConn fans.

Now if UConn were absolutely certain of an invite from the BeeOneGee, and/or the Big 12, that might not be so bad. But any potential limiting of options in this climate is not the most wise path.

Until the AyeCeeCee adds UConn, screw 'em. They have passed on us multiple times, I'm not gonna kiss their ass just to appease some trolls that show up on this message board.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

And why does such a common, for this UConn board anyway, pattern of openly despising the ACC bother those of who who have said we think UConn belongs in the ACC? Because one thing that conference commissioners and school ADs have learned from the past few years is that the opinions and attitudes of fans online matter.

If UConn fans get a reputation for bitterness morphing into a WVU level of hatred for the ACC, then there may be little that UConn administrators can do to overcome the new bad reputation of UConn fans.

Now if UConn were absolutely certain of an invite from the BeeOneGee, and/or the Big 12, that might not be so bad. But any potential limiting of options in this climate is not the most wise path.

Let me get this straight...you're saying, without irony, that if we don't kiss your a on here, we could prevent UConn from getting an ACC invite?

Well excuse me, highness. I'll remember to genuflect next time.

Seriously, you've got some nerve. I suspect you really came here to cast pearls before swine. When you didn't get the adoration you expected, you post this drivel.

1) I don't need to apologize for my bitterness to anyone. It's warranted hate. It's justified. It's motivating. As a fan base we will not forget or forgive.

2) You deserve to be mocked mercilessly for these comments. They're preposterous. You have no credibility left.

Good day.

 

[Durks07]

Some fans of ACC schools, including ND, come here to say they feel UConn belongs in the ACC, and your attitude is 'screw the ACC' until we get in. Oh, well now I feel bad. I promise we will play nice from now on.

Not very friendly, is it? Especially when you are as defensive of the BeeOneGee and Rutgers as if you were in the former because the latter demanded you be admitted. Maybe it is "unfriendly," as you say, but it becomes warranted when you suggest that we should share your opinion. I think you mistake "defensive" of the B1G [oh no, I'm semi-illiterate now!] for preferring that conference to joining the ACC given an option. Defensive of Rutgers you say? Point out where our members are defending the addition of Rutgers. One source or one quote that shows that any UConn fan here thinks that Rutgers was a brilliant addition from an athletic standpoint. Is it possible that you are confusing understanding the financial purpose behind the decision as a tacit approval of the decision-making. That seems more likely, and I'll bet my bottom dollar that you don't see the irony in you having the gall to intimate that anyone else is semi-literate. The latter demanded that we be admitted? When? Where? To who? In what context? Did it actually happen or are you trying to grasp any straw you can to rationalize why anyone would prefer a conference other than the ACC? I'll save you the trouble: That has not happened. If you want to throw your opinion around this board, then fine, but don't make things up.

But UConn is not in the BeeOneGee, and only the naive think Rutgers has anyone involved with its sports who wants to share its NYC area status in the BeeOneGee with UConn, which would outshine poor pitiful Rutgers embarrassingly easily. I'd love to see the quote from this board anywhere that suggests that Rutgers wants to "share NYC" with UConn from a UConn fan. By the way, there is an ACC member who feels exactly this way towards UConn with regards to New England.

And why does such a common, for this UConn board anyway, pattern of openly despising the ACC bother those of who who have said we think UConn belongs in the ACC? Because one thing that conference commissioners and school ADs have learned from the past few years is that the opinions and attitudes of fans online matter. They matter so much that should the Big 12 come apart, and both the ACC and SEC expand to 16, WVU will get an invite from neither. The main reason is that WVU fans online have so befouled the reputation of the sports programs they love that nobody wants to get near them. WVU befouled the reputation of its fans well before they were invited to the Big 12, and that didn't stop them from driving a Brinks truck through the meth labs and moonshine distilleries to pay them. Side note: If you are going to use a definite phrase such as "the main reason" to prove [sorry, state your opinion] a point, then provide a link to support it. Not one person who has brain cells reads this and believes it.

If UConn fans get a reputation for bitterness morphing into a WVU level of hatred for the ACC, then there may be little that UConn administrators can do to overcome the new bad reputation of UConn fans. What good did the "good reputation" of Uconn fans do for it over the past few years?

Now if UConn were absolutely certain of an invite from the BeeOneGee, and/or the Big 12, that might not be so bad. But any potential limiting of options in this climate is not the most wise path. I'll make sure to tell John Swofford next time I see him that we're just really passionate.

 

[TerryD]

Until the AyeCeeCee adds UConn, screw 'em. They have passed on us multiple times, I'm not gonna kiss their ass just to appease some trolls that show up on this message board.

I agree with you. Like I said, that is part of the reason ND wants nothing to do with the Big Ten. So, I understand the sentiment.

 

[Ha Who]

Z ZZ Z Z Z Z Z

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Back on topic. Would you rather your most distant road trips be in Miami or Minnesota?