Inside The Greatest Collapse In Baseball History

[zls44]

This is fantastic to read. Just fun.

Francona on painkillers!
Fried chicken and beer!
$300 headphones as a sign of support!

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseba...d_during_epic_late_season_collapse/?page=full

 

[doggydaddy]

This is fantastic to read. Just fun.

Francona on painkillers!
Fried chicken and beer!
$300 headphones as a sign of support!

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseba...d_during_epic_late_season_collapse/?page=full

What a friggin' mess. I'm sure Francona is happy to get away from that.

 

[uconnfan68]

This is fantastic to read. Just fun.

Francona on painkillers!
Fried chicken and beer!
$300 headphones as a sign of support!

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseba...d_during_epic_late_season_collapse/?page=full

I can't believe that rag is accusing Francona of abuse of painkillers. The biggest NON-STORY ever. The 3 jerks in the clubhouse during games... that's another matter.

 

[Dogdeacon]

If reading about guys eating chicken and drinking beer qualifies as fantastic for Yankee fans I think I could attain a massive following if I blog my weekend BBQs next summer

 

[Waquoit]

Enough about 2004 already.

 

[doggydaddy]

Only

Enough about 2004 already.

Only Sox fans still buy that one.

 

[Fishy]

No one enjoyed the Red Sox collapse more than I did - no one. I loved every moment of and I still enjoy thinking about those gut punches on the last night.

That said, that article is offensive on a number of levels - the stuff about Francona is despicable.

 

[Deadrody]

No one enjoyed the Red Sox collapse more than I did - no one. I loved every moment of and I still enjoy thinking about those gut punches on the last night.

That said, that article is offensive on a number of levels - the stuff about Francona is despicable.

The take on ESPN tonight from Gordon Eades was that leaking that kind of info has got to make every single member of the organization think twice. If they're willing to leak personal info like that to make a bona fide hero in Red Sox Nation look bad, they'd do it to ANYONE.

 

[Deadrody]

This is fantastic to read. Just fun.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseba...d_during_epic_late_season_collapse/?page=full

I thought this was an interesting quote:

“It’ s hard for a guy making $80,000 to tell a $15 million pitcher he needs to get off his butt and do some work,’’ one source said.

No, actually, its not hard at all for that pipsqueak trainer to tell him that. What IS hard, is for a lazy, arrogant, narcissistic moron pitcher to LISTEN to the trainer.

 

[Danzz]

I thought this was an interesting quote:

No, actually, its not hard at all for that pipsqueak trainer to tell him that. What IS hard, is for a lazy, arrogant, narcissistic moron pitcher to LISTEN to the trainer.

Watching injuries bury this team the last two seasons was painful. I didn't buy training as an issue because i assumed that all professional athletes follow a strict regimon and that regimon probably wasn't much different from team to team. You could see Beckett add weight during the season and some red flags went up.
It is one thing for a trainer to develop a training program but quite another for the players to do the work. Apparently the Sox pitchers didn't do the work. IMO this was a much bigger issue than dinking beer in the clubhouse or eating a chicken wing which as I understand it is not all that uncommon in MLB.
The stuff about about Francona was pure crap. The man has had about 20 knee surguries and has been on pain killers for a long time and according to Tito he was in better shape this year than the championship years. He tried to turn their attitude around but a few players simply ignored him. Just as hitting is contagious so is attitude. And where were the owners and Theo in all this? They should have stepped forward and warned the players involved and if they didn't change, fine them heavily or suspend them. They had to know what was going on despite their denials.
Here is what I would like to see for the Sox next season:
Release, trade or cut:
Lackey, Varitek, Drew, Ortiz, Youkalis, Wakefield
Reasoning:
Lackey: is obvious, he is plain awful and an balloon knot to boot
Varitek: don't need him, go with Salty and the kid from Pawtucket. As captain, he has some fault for Sept.
Drew: injury prone, missed over 200 games
Youkalis: he can't handle playing 3B physically and no room at 1B
Wakefield: Thanks Tim but you are done
Renew, extend or sign:
Ellsbury, Papalbon, RH power hitter as DH or RF (lineup is too LH dominant especially with Youk gone), reliever to replace Aceves who would move to starting rotation, 3B to replace Youkalis. Longoria?

 

[Waquoit]

This whole thing reminds me of the scene in North Dallas Forty where Nick Nolte is explaining who "the team" really is. The attempted sliming of Francona is awful. It's making me rethink my fandom. This is supposed to be fun.

 

[bpo57]

This is fantastic to read. Just fun.

Francona on painkillers!
Fried chicken and beer!
$300 headphones as a sign of support!

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseba...d_during_epic_late_season_collapse/?page=full

The smug satisfaction of NYY fans here is amusing given their short memories. Wasn't it just a few months ago that certain members of NY's front office was throwing their beloved el cap-i-tan under the bus. You don't get much skeevier than Randy Levine. And Cashman is no saint either.

That said, Sox ownership deserves the grief they are getting. And we'll see how Theo does with the Cubs. All I know is that his last 4-5 years with the Sox were marked by one bad decision after another. Can't say he has left with the cupboard stacked in terms of minor league talent.

 

[Waquoit]

The Sox meltdown doesn't change the fact that Yankee fans are a bunch of knobs. But hey, at least one fanbase is happy and satisfied. I'm jealous.

 

[bpo57]

The Sox meltdown doesn't change the fact that Yankee fans are a bunch of knobs. But hey, at least one fanbase is happy and satisfied. I'm jealous.

Trouble on Yawkey Way can only momentarily distract from the harsh reality that one title in eleven years isn't getting it done. One would expect a better return on the annual investment of $200 mil in salaries than that.

 

[zyron]

Trouble on Yawkey Way can only momentarily distract from the harsh reality that one title in eleven years isn't getting it done. One would expect a better return on the annual investment of $200 mil in salaries than that.

And one would think one would get a better ROI on $170 mil in salaries than 3rd place 2 years in a row.

 

[doggydaddy]

The smug satisfaction of NYY fans here is amusing given their short memories. Wasn't it just a few months ago that certain members of NY's front office was throwing their beloved el cap-i-tan under the bus. You don't get much skeevier than Randy Levine. And Cashman is no saint either.

That said, Sox ownership deserves the grief they are getting. And we'll see how Theo does with the Cubs. All I know is that his last 4-5 years with the Sox were marked by one bad decision after another. Can't say he has left with the cupboard stacked in terms of minor league talent.

Please,there is nothing going on in NY that compared to this cluster
f(ck. Not even close.

I feel terrible for Francona. He doesn't deserve this.

 

[bpo57]

Please,there is nothing going on in NY that compared to this cluster
f(ck. Not even close.

I feel terrible for Francona. He doesn't deserve this.

No doubt about it, doggy. Didn't say otherwise. But all is not perfect in Yankeeland either. If I told you in late 2000 that your team would win one title in the next eleven years despite leading MLB by a wide margin in salary expense, I think you would have been incredulous. They have found new and innovative ways of getting bounced from the playoffs by teams they were heavily favored to beat.

 

[doggydaddy]

No doubt about it, doggy. Didn't say otherwise. But all is not perfect in Yankeeland either. If I told you in late 2000 that your team would win one title in the next eleven years despite leading MLB by a wide margin in salary expense, I think you would have been incredulous. They have found new and innovative ways of getting bounced from the playoffs by teams they were heavily favored to beat.

Teams win. Teams lose. I know, profound. But after many, many, MANY years of following baseball, I have learned to accept that no matter how good, how much of a favorite your team is, they can and will lose.

So, no, I'm not surprised. I saw the weaknesses of this years team. I'm not even sure they were that much of a favorite. And they were ONE hit away from winning the series anyways.

Spending money gives you a great chance of making the playoffs but it doesn't guarentee anything. So, no, I'm not incredulous about them only winning 1 in the last several years.

Sorry, I know you want me to be more upset about it. Now, if Burnett, Sabathia, and Colon were drinking beer, eating fried chicken and playing video games DURING games as the Yanks were sinking, I'd be PISSED OFF.

 

[zls44]

The stuff about Tito was just lower than low. Unbelievable, yet totally to be expected from you people. Good Lord, is there anyone you won't run over on the way out of town? Do you people have ANY shame? I guess we have the answer that's always been there: no. You do not. I am enjoying this not because it's the Red Sox, rather, because it is a commupance your fanbase has deserved for a long, long time.

There is nothing similar between Randy Levine making a general statement about players building mansions and MANAGEMENT CLAIMING THE MANAGER HAS A DRUG PROBLEM.

Ask anyone in baseball who has a better future, Red Sox or Yankees. No question. One has a farm system. One made the same stupid mistakes the Yankees did earlier this decade.

Lavarnway-lite, my ass.

 

[Danzz]

The stuff about Tito was just lower than low. Unbelievable, yet totally to be expected from you people. Good Lord, is there anyone you won't run over on the way out of town? Do you people have ANY shame? I guess we have the answer that's always been there: no. You do not. I am enjoying this not because it's the Red Sox, rather, because it is a commupance your fanbase has deserved for a long, long time.

There is nothing similar between Randy Levine making a general statement about players building mansions and MANAGEMENT CLAIMING THE MANAGER HAS A DRUG PROBLEM.

Ask anyone in baseball who has a better future, Red Sox or Yankees. No question. One has a farm system. One made the same stupid mistakes the Yankees did earlier this decade.

Lavarnway-lite, my ass.

Wait a minute, which person in management are you talking about? How do you know where it came from? There is a much better chance it came from the clubhouse.
There are problems in Boston that have to be addressed but it is only natural to point the finger. IMO everyone in the organization deserves some blame:
1) The players for their behavior
2) Tito for losing control
3) Theo for bringing in the wrong players
4)Management for recognizing the problem and passing the buck.
All of them deserve a kick in the butt for either creating the toxic atmosphere or enabling it.

 

[bpo57]

Teams win. Teams lose. I know, profound. But after many, many, MANY years of following baseball, I have learned to accept that no matter how good, how much of a favorite your team is, they can and will lose.

So, no, I'm not surprised. I saw the weaknesses of this years team. I'm not even sure they were that much of a favorite. And they were ONE hit away from winning the series anyways.

Spending money gives you a great chance of making the playoffs but it doesn't guarentee anything. So, no, I'm not incredulous about them only winning 1 in the last several years.

Sorry, I know you want me to be more upset about it. Now, if Burnett, Sabathia, and Colon were drinking beer, eating fried chicken and playing video games DURING games as the Yanks were sinking, I'd be PISSED OFF.

I get your point just not sure Sabathia and Colon are the greatest examples. Sabathia came into camp this year having shed a few pounds- no doubt in anticipation of collecting another windfall after opting out. But he easily put on 15-20 lbs. during the course of the season and is as heavy as he has ever been. That opt out situation has danger written all over it for the NYY. Here is a guy that has averaged 240 plus innings over the last five years and really showed signs of deterioration this year and now he wants extra years added on to his current four years to run at $23 mil. If I were the Yanks I'd tell him to pound sand as otherwise they will live to regret it, much like the ARod situation.

I really don't care if you are upset about the last decade or not. I just know that most NYY fans that I know, those that are honest, will admit it has been disappointing.

 

[Cheddie]

I can't believe that rag is accusing Francona of abuse of painkillers. The biggest NON-STORY ever. The 3 jerks in the clubhouse during games... that's another matter.

The Francona stuff was without question leaked to the Globe. Don't blame the Globe: what sports writer in the country wouldn't print that? The bigger issue is who leaked that crap? The best guess is certainly Lucchino. Francona went off script and said he wasn't supported by management. Voila - out comes Terry's dirty wash. Is Lucchino a SOB? Ask Theo - who, for the 2nd time, had enough himself.

 

[mauconnfan]

Wait a minute, which person in management are you talking about? How do you know where it came from? There is a much better chance it came from the clubhouse.
There are problems in Boston that have to be addressed but it is only natural to point the finger. IMO everyone in the organization deserves some blame:
1) The players for their behavior
2) Tito for losing control
3) Theo for bringing in the wrong players
4)Management for recognizing the problem and passing the buck.
All of them deserve a kick in the butt for either creating the toxic atmosphere or enabling it.

Tito didn't lose control the players did. They're grown men, well most are, and should have a handle on what it takes to win. Managers are always blamed but this one is obvious. And it's also obvious this came from Lucchino - he's a major league a**hole. But hey I find it pretty funny watching this unfold. Quite a circus event!!

 

[tykurez]

As a Yankees fan, this is how I feel about the situation:
1) 2004, imo, was the greatest collapse in baseball history
2) What has happened to Francona is awful and despicable. I would take him over almost any other manager in the league
3) Beckett and Lackey ... couldn't have happened to two better guys.
4) I'm enjoying this if for no other reason then the attention being taken off the Yankees for the time being

 

[Huskymaniac]

You don't get much skeevier than Randy Levine. And Cashman is no saint either.

You are correct. Levine is a greasy slimey snake. Cashman is a clueless . They are both "close" to the Steinbrenner family. THAT is why they stay when people like Torre are run out of town. And I fear that Girardi will be the next scapegoat.

BTW, Gene Michaels and Bob Watson are the ones responsible for the Yankee success in the late 90s through 2000, no Cashman. Coin flips could have resulted in as many good and bad decisions as he has made. Money is what keeps them from being the Astros. Ironically, the Steinbrenners supply the money and also cause the fron office disasters.