I'm More Convinced Than Ever: UConn & UVA to the B1G

[Fishy]

VPI and NCSU would be sufficient to give the SEC the NC and Va markets -- as well as a more "SEC-compatible" atmosphere than their in-state superiors. But as FranktheTank has long asserted -- and the recent GoR does corroborate -- the ACC is stronger and more unified than SEC, Big Ten, and Big 12 *fans* like to admit. We'll all just wait to see what happens in the early 2020s, but "ACC destruction" talk before then is not based in logic.

I think we're seeing that North Carolina is far closer to the SEC ideal than we previously thought - right now, half the SEC is doing a slow clap in appreciation for the fake class gambit.

I'm not sure you can say that a school leaving isn't based in logic - after all, one school is leaving in three weeks and we're barely a year removed from the conference's premier football member begging an invite from the SEC. The foundation has a fresh coat of paint, but the cracks are recent.

If it comes to pass that the SEC and Big Ten are cashing checks $15-$20M higher than ACC schools, someone will start to think about it.

 

[whaler11]

Michigan is great in football all the time? Did I stumble into a thread from like a decade ago?

 

[BC1978]

Quite simply, you're wrong. Sometimes you think, sometimes you know.

The negotiations with Maryland had nothing to do with Virginia/UNC's interest or perceived lack thereof. They wanted Maryland on their own merits and because they were already contiguous to the Big Ten footprint. That's a fact. NYC/DC television markets... why is that so hard for you to grasp? They REALLY wanted those.

Spin it however you want, but just know you're incorrect in doing so.

Well, I stated it as opinion. It could be correct. It could be incorrect. That's the nature of opinions. Quite frankly, that's all that you have offered here. You claim to be in the know, but, in the end, all you have offered is unsupported opinions, backed up by your assertion that you know the facts. You show me factual evidence to support your claim (as opposed to another opinion from someone else), then different story.

Sorry, we just disagree. Not the first time that has happened between posters!

 

[FAIRTIDES]

I think we're seeing that North Carolina is far closer to the SEC ideal than we previously thought - right now, half the SEC is doing a slow clap in appreciation for the fake class gambit.

I'm not sure you can say that a school leaving isn't based in logic - after all, one school is leaving in three weeks and we're barely a year removed from the conference's premier football member begging an invite from the SEC. The foundation has a fresh coat of paint, but the cracks are recent.

If it comes to pass that the SEC and Big Ten are cashing checks $15-$20M higher than ACC schools, someone will start to think about it.

Belly laughs don't come easily from me, but you got one.

 

[Seaa Blue]

That's pretty apparent. For the visting BiG fans who claim with a straight face that UMD was selected ahead of UNC or UVA, I don't know what to say. IMO, UMD was selected AFTER discussions with UVA and UNC likely went nowehere.

I don't know what to say either. If you're going to claim that us B1G fans are talking out or our back side, please explain why. Then we can talk.

For me, I've observed how B1G does business over a number of years and I've drawn some conclusions.

Starting with Nebraska, it's apparent that it's typically a relatively quick and secretive process. The "open" era went away with Mizzou and undisclosed others getting burned by unrelenting speculation by fans and media.

Further, with no indication that anyone has ever gotten "the scoop" on B1G's next move, saying that UNC and UVA were involved in actual discussions is extremely speculative.

There is every indication that B1G's scouting involves extreme passive sonar ("we're listening") and very little active pinging. Public records request seem to confirm that after examining emails between UNC administrators in reaction to Maryland's announcement. Same goes with UVA's athletic director. I don't have those links, but there is every indication that they were surprised. The logical conclusion is that there were no discussions with UVA and UNC, certainly not to the extent that has been suggested.

 

[Fishy]

It's fairly clear to anyone paying attention that the Big Ten went after Maryland and Rutgers first, not North Carolina and Virginia.

 

[kyleslamb]

There is every indication that B1G's scouting involves extreme passive sonar ("we're listening") and very little active pinging. Public records request seem to confirm that after examining emails between UNC administrators in reaction to Maryland's announcement. Same goes with UVA's athletic director. I don't have those links, but there is every indication that they were surprised. The logical conclusion is that there were no discussions with UVA and UNC, certainly not to the extent that has been suggested.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Here is an email from UNC Athletic CFO Martina Ballen the day after Maryland joined the Big Ten, in response to a story about how much money Maryland stood to gained by switching leagues:

“Wow! Big $$$ if this is accurate.”

Now, if the Big Ten had already been wooing UNC and shared financials through signing an NDA, why would one of UNC's leading financial individuals be surprised to learn the figures being purported by the Big Ten? And why would she have to learn of the financials through a newspaper report after the fact? After all, some folks here have assured everyone the Big Ten went after UNC and were rejected.

Bubba Cunningham was also shown to have been 'taken by surprise' by the move. Surely if UNC knew the Big Ten was poking around and wooing they and UVA, they wouldn't be surprised they'd take Maryland, right?

 

[SouthronCross]

If Virginia, Florida State, etc. started leaving the ACC, the Big Ten would have as good a shot at getting UNC as anyone. While their fans do tend to prefer the SEC, their administration and the folks up in the board of regents tend to favor the Big Ten by the sound of things.

Ultimately, the UNC administration and BOGs will listen to what the big money donors tell them to do. Whichever league the majority of them decide upon will be where Carolina would end up.

It won't be a guarantee, but getting UVA might be the key to getting UNC. And, as even UVA fans have said, there's no way UVA would go to the SEC.

The administrations at both universities are pretty tight. And, they'd both pick the B1G. UNC's money folks are not all in favor of a move there, though, where I feel pretty sure UVA's would be. That said, the two schools would like to stay together, if at all possible.

But again, there's no doubt that UNC is only possible if other things happen first.

That is the absolute truth. UNC won't allow itself to be the one accused of bringing about the ACC's breakup.

I suppose we could debate the feasibility of UVA leaving first until we're Carolina Blue in the face, but the point I'm making is that while Virginia would be the first choice of a partner for UConn, Kansas might be the more readily attainable option.

Agreed.

 

[SouthronCross]

VPI and NCSU would be sufficient to give the SEC the NC and Va markets -- as well as a more "SEC-compatible" atmosphere than their in-state superiors.

Both Mike Slive and Jim Delany know full well that whichever league got UNC and UVA would control the TV market in those states. If both of those ended up in the B1G, the SECN might be a tougher sell in both states.

But as FranktheTank has long asserted -- and the recent GoR does corroborate -- the ACC is stronger and more unified than SEC, Big Ten, and Big 12 *fans* like to admit. We'll all just wait to see what happens in the early 2020s, but "ACC destruction" talk before then is not based in logic.

True, the league IS more unified than its been for a long time. If that continues, it will be just fine.

The ACC 'destruction't talk is just that, talk, at this point.

 

[SouthronCross]

Quite simply, you're wrong. Sometimes you think, sometimes you know.

The negotiations with Maryland had nothing to do with Virginia/UNC's interest or perceived lack thereof. They wanted Maryland on their own merits and because they were already contiguous to the Big Ten footprint. That's a fact. NYC/DC television markets... why is that so hard for you to grasp? They REALLY wanted those.

Spin it however you want, but just know you're incorrect in doing so.

Maryland was also the ACC member in the most dire financial situation, too. The lowest hanging fruit, as it were. That certainly played into the move.

 

[NickyNewark]

Maryland was also the ACC member in the most dire financial situation, too. The lowest hanging fruit, as it were. That certainly played into the move.

None the less KylesLamb was on the money and a founder of the ACC....nice grab by the B1G sweeping the eastcoast top markets from DC to NYC/NJ/LI eyeball's. Grab UConn and the B1G will clean up NYC north clear to Maine for the upcoming TV rights negotiation's!! The largest richest market stretch in the country!

 

[Fishy]

Maryland was also the ACC member in the most dire financial situation, too. The lowest hanging fruit, as it were. That certainly played into the move.

Eh.

It was a real estate acquisition.

With two invites, the Big Ten took the entire Mid-Atlantic region from New York to Washington DC - if you want to know where the ACC Network started to flat-line, that's where you start.

 

[kyleslamb]

Maryland was also the ACC member in the most dire financial situation, too. The lowest hanging fruit, as it were. That certainly played into the move.

Perhaps, but I think what needs to be emphasized though is that as petty as it sounds, the Big Ten didn't want to be perceived as jumping into regions and stealing teams from different territories. They wanted to gradually expand outward, if possible. The Big Ten also really, really wanted those TV markets (that cannot be emphasized enough). And, to be frank, I also think the Big Ten knew that by adding Maryland, it would have a better shot at Virginia and UNC later on.

 

[NickyNewark]

Perhaps, but I think what needs to be emphasized though is that as petty as it sounds, the Big Ten didn't want to be perceived as jumping into regions and stealing teams from different territories. They wanted to gradually expand outward, if possible. The Big Ten also really, really wanted those TV markets (that cannot be emphasized enough). And, to be frank, I also think the Big Ten knew that by adding Maryland, it would have a better shot at Virginia and UNC later on.

I agree with every bit of that post! Even without proof...it just "rings" true! Too much sense to use the roots to expand. Like a snowball rolling down the side of a snow covered hill the B1G's growing!!

 

[TerryD]

Eh.

It was a real estate acquisition.

With two invites, the Big Ten took the entire Mid-Atlantic region from New York to Washington DC - if you want to know where the ACC Network started to flat-line, that's where you start.

I thought it was when John Swofford sold all those "Tier 3" TV rights to Raycom and ESPN?

 

[Seaa Blue]

Maryland was also the ACC member in the most dire financial situation, too. The lowest hanging fruit, as it were. That certainly played into the move.

At the time, the ACC as a conference was also the lowest hanging fruit. So, make what you will of Maryland's financial issues, if the conference had been stronger it might not have happened.

And when there was talk of Clemson, Florida State and possibly UNC looking around, if any any other ACC school not named Duke would have gotten the call, they would have listened.

 

[Fishy]

I thought it was when John Swofford sold all those "Tier 3" TV rights to Raycom and ESPN?

If you're asking ESPN to start a conference network for you, which you were, do you think losing every television set between Washington, DC and Manhattan might have been a bad thing?

 

[Seaa Blue]

If you're asking ESPN to start a conference network for you, which you were, do you think losing every television set between Washington, DC and Manhattan might have been a bad thing?

Clearly you didn't get the memo from the ACC Fishy.

“If an entrepreneur wanted to start a new conference as a business,” the introductory section says, “the ACC geographic footprint is the most viable market in the country.”

It later references the Big 12 and West Virginia, which it calls a geographic “outlier” because “WVU travel issues are requiring discussion after just one year,” and adds that the ACC has no such outlier.

The ACC claims the largest geographical footprint of any major conference “in terms of total population of persons,” including what it calls a “staggering” 70-million difference between it and the Big 12. The analysis also includes age demographic maps for 15-34, a key television grouping, to illustrate how “the ACC footprint had the most states with double-digit population growth.”

“Interestingly,” it adds, “the Big Ten footprint would not have had any states with double digit growth without Maryland and in fact, two states lost population in this key demo.”

 

[Plains&Lakes]

The Big Ten stood at 11 for years when the SEC went to 12. When the SEC went to 13 and then took a team-Missouri-who was a potential Big Ten Candidate, the then equaled the SEC and ACC's total of 14. The conference indirectly (and in some one, directly) compete with each other, but they also need each other. If the SEC and the ACC do not go to 16, the Big Ten might well stand pat. If one can make the case for the ACC schools being willing to settle for less money in order preserve tradition, who is to say that the Big Ten schools won't stay in their comfort zone with Rutgers and Maryland? I think that 2 things have to happen: 1) The school has to really want to be in the Big Ten. 2) That school, or schools has to be able to offer the Big Ten too many pluses to refuse. If you buy the story that we need 2 more at once, there has to be another school our their that not only changes its mind, but wants to fight a GOR. Of course, GOR-less Missouri and UConn are in a unique situation. To which we can tentatively add high academic Vanderbilt to these 2.

 

[whaler11]

http://the-boneyard.com/threads/uconn-to-the-b10.60994/

Thread of the year right there.

From the timing of the 'discovery', to the lack of SNY understanding, to the premise that the AAC>B10 to Nicky being the WOAT.

 

[noeynox]

http://the-boneyard.com/threads/uconn-to-the-b10.60994/

Thread of the year right there.

From the timing of the 'discovery', to the lack of SNY understanding, to the premise that the AAC>B10 to Nicky being the WOAT.

Funny, I read that the other day for sheets and giggles I read to the whole thing. Guess wen you look at it from a WBB perspective, it doesn't matter what conference your in. Few gems in there that is for sure.

 

[Ldandy]

Eh.

It was a real estate acquisition.

With two invites, the Big Ten took the entire Mid-Atlantic region from New York to Washington DC - if you want to know where the ACC Network started to flat-line, that's where you start.

Flat-line? LOL you're giving the ACC Network too much credit. You have to be born to actually die, and at this point The ACCN isn't even a twinkle in Big Daddy ESPN's Eye.

 

[CL82]

It's fairly clear to anyone paying attention that the Big Ten went after Maryland and Rutgers first, not North Carolina and Virginia.

I think so. I suspect that the possibility to pick up pieces out of a destabilized ACC may have been a part of their thought process as a potential phase II.

 

[dayooper]

From one of the insiders at The Scout Buckeye forum Hineygate:

--- Boilerbuilder wrote:


WinchesterBUCK wrote: UVA will be #15.

BUCK, is that your guess or do you have insider info?

---------------------------------------------

Been told this since Maryland and Rutgers were added. They want UNC as #16, but that will take some doing. Like a war of attrition. UConn has come into the picture, along with GT.

Take if for what it's worth.

 

[XOVERX]

Let's think about the B12 versus the ACC for a moment or two.

The B12 has lost Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, and Missouri since 2010. The ACC has lost Maryland. Which league has endured more trauma?

The B12 lost schools for reasons ranging from everything from "we were afraid of being left behind" to "we hate Texas". The ACC lost a school that monumentally mismanaged its money and had to cut out many sports. Which league is less fundamentally stable?

The B12 GOR expires in June 2025. The ACC GOR expires sometime around 2027 or so. Which league's schools are going to be available first?

The B12 has a footprint consisting of Kansas City and the State of Texas. The ACC has a footprint containing 70M more people than the B12, and ranges from Florida to Boston. Which league has the most long-term TV potential?

The B12 has a TV ratings problem because people outside of the tiny B12 footprint are not tuning into B12 football games. If you were forced to watch one of the following two games, which game would you pick: Virginia Tech @ Syracuse or Texas Tech @ Kansas State? How about Texas & Oklahoma or Clemson @ Florida State?

Huge numbers of alums of the B12's major schools -- Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas -- talk constantly about not being happy in the B12 and wanting out (and why not? -- the heart of our league has been ripped out). For Texas, Scipio Tex over at Barking Carnival is the leader of a rather cacophonous group of Longhorns disaffected with the B12. Do you hear the same unhappiness from ACC fans and alums day-after-day? Do any ACC alums come on this board and talk about moving out of the ACC?

Just playing out the probabilities with what is known today, which is more probable: The B12 gets raided again or the ACC gets raided again?

WinchesterBUCK is a great tOSU poster. But I just don't see UVA leaving the ACC without UNC in tow. Does anyone really foresee UNC being among the first two out of the ACC? To break open the ACC, I'm thinking it would take the B1G and the SEC cooperating in tandem. I just have trouble intellectually getting to that kind of cooperation between the B1G and the SEC, if only for the potential legal issues that would arise. WinchestBUCK also has been saying, "wait 'till MY-ACC settles", so we'll see soon enough, since the ACC cannot withhold any more MY money after June, 2014. Well, June's here, MY-ACC ought to settle soon (if it's going to settle at all), so we'll see.

And from simply a strategic standpoint -- not that there's anything anybody can do about it -- but if the B12 crumbles, there's only Kansas -> Oklahoma -> Texas that are desirable for the B1G. If the ACC crumbles, most all of the ACC schools would be available to the B1G, but more specifically, Boston College and Syracuse would be available. From a strategic pov, is it really in UConn's best interest to for the ACC to be the conference that crumbles?

Let's talk about Texas, it's goals and aspirations .... Texas' ambition is to become a truly national brand, and, hopefully, an international brand. Texas covets the huge metropolitan cities of the northern tier, and, most importantly NYC. NYC is the face of America, its media center, its cultural center (sorry, California).

Texas is setting up a football game in Mexico City, and we open the basketball regular season this year in China. For these kinds of endeavors, would being a member of the B1G give Texas more exposure in the NE Corridor or less exposure?

The SEC cannot deliver culture, except for "good ole boy" culture out in places like Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Texas doesn't want SEC "good ole boy" -- we've already got plenty of "good ole boy" out in the East Texas hinterlands, I assure you. Texas @ Austin values cosmopolitan and academic culture -- witness the current titanic struggle between Texas Admins and Governor Perry, who wants to turn Texas @ Austin into a diploma mill, like he did Texas A&M @ College Station. Not happening. Texas would love the CIC and this developing B1G association with the Ivy League, via Cornell. As for "rust belt", "too cold", "bad football", "can't recruit to the B1G" -- all that stuff is just plain plain silly and, frankly, border-line ignorant.

The bottom line is that Kansas would almost certainly accept an offer to join the B1G. If Kansas were to leave the B12, here comes the trauma. Again. There's only so much trauma Oklahoma and Texas can endure. You folks at UConn know exactly what kind of trauma I'm talking about. It's draining. Not fun. Recurrences are to be avoided.

I think Oklahoma would leave OSU and embrace the athletic-academic advantages of the B1G, which also offers lasting rock-solid stability, significant revenue, and re-establishment of the OU-NU rivalry. I'm not even certain OSU would fight Oklahoma if KU left for the B1G. I think OSU would simply be resigned to their fate. Oklahoma politicians are not going to block Oklahoma from migrating to the B1G if Kansas is gone. The only question I have is whether the B1G would offer Oklahoma unconditionally. They might not without linkage to a Texas acceptance.

As for Texas, Texas would understand that without KU and OU, the B12 is untenable. Texas would move somewhere, period, in my view. Would it be to the PAC? Would it be to the SEC? Would it be to the ACC? Would it be to the B1G? There's your only 4 choices -- independence is not an option. This post is sufficiently long. For many reasons, some set forth hereinabove, I think Texas would choose the B1G.

And that means UConn, either at #16 or at #18, to the B1G. In the B12 scenario, there is no BC or Syracuse to have to deal with. Just Kansas alone moving to the B1G and UConn is golden.