I read this a.m...

[wire chief]

...that a victory tonight ties Bobby Knight's 902 total.

 

[cohenzone]

I don't like men and women basketball records being put on the same list. All the achievements are noteworthy but really are not the same. Might as well throw in Joe Torre's managerial win totals for all the relevance a coach of female hoops has to a coach of men's hoops. Ditto for individual player totals. How do you compare Shea Ralph's high school records to Michael Jordan's?

If GA coaches another 5-6 years, he'll have crazy totals within his own sport and that's plenty good enough for any record enthusiasts. BTW, one can suppose that Bobby Knight couldn't do as women's coach what GA has done and the reverse might well be true if GA had coached men.

 

[Oldbones]

I believe that most records lose value with the passage of time, and comparisons lose their value.

The recently deceased Jean Beliveau and other great hockey players of the 50s played a 70-game season and two rounds of playoffs. Now it's 82 games and four rounds. Jim Brown gained his impressive rushing totals in a 12 or 14-game football season. Postseason baseball records all eclipse earlier records with the addition of multiple rounds. Lew Alcindor (Later Kareem Abdul-Jabbar), living in a time when freshmen did not play varsity, played in only 90 college varsity games including postseason (winning 88) because that's how long the season was. Jerry West generated those great numbers when his long range shots were worth two points, not three. Early baseball triples records, unapproachable now, can be directly attributed to poorer field conditions and even the mitts, as well as the improved athleticism of current players. Early Olympic swimming champion and TV serial actor Buster Crabbe often indicated that he would have liked to compete in the reduced churn of todays deeper wider pools. Imagine Rod Laver with todays Tennis shoes and racquets, and the length and breadth of the world tennis tour, or Helen Wills Moody not playing in full dress. Are today's pole-vaulters better than the ones who used a bamboo pole? Is Geno's 2014 40-0 team 14.3 percent better than the 1995 one who was only 35-o?

 

[scrooster]

I believe that most records lose value with the passage of time, and comparisons lose their value.

The recently deceased Jean Beliveau and other great hockey players of the 50s played a 70-game season and two rounds of playoffs. Now it's 82 games and four rounds. Jim Brown gained his impressive rushing totals in a 12 or 14-game football season. Postseason baseball records all eclipse earlier records with the addition of multiple rounds. Lew Alcindor (Later Kareem Abdul-Jabbar), living in a time when freshmen did not play varsity, played in only 90 college varsity games including postseason (winning 88) because that's how long the season was. Jerry West generated those great numbers when his long range shots were worth two points, not three. Early baseball triples records, unapproachable now, can be directly attributed to poorer field conditions and even the mitts, as well as the improved athleticism of current players. Early Olympic swimming champion and TV serial actor Buster Crabbe often indicated that he would have liked to compete in the reduced churn of todays deeper wider pools. Imagine Rod Laver with todays Tennis shoes and racquets, and the length and breadth of the world tennis tour, or Helen Wills Moody not playing in full dress. Are today's pole-vaulters better than the ones who used a bamboo pole? Is Geno's 2014 40-0 team 14.3 percent better than the 1995 one who was only 35-o?

You forgot Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicholas with modern metal club technology ... and better flying balls, (aerodynamic dimples and all). Or imagine General Lee had he 5,000 Henry rifles and plenty of ammo and a Gatling Gun or two or three, or even one modern bolt action rifle capable of accurate, repeated 800 yard shots ... even as outnumbered as he was. Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Micky Mantle ... hitting modern baseballs. And would Jim Brown be as good against the bigger, faster defenders today? When he was playing linebackers ran 4.8s and weighed 180 pds ... big offensive linemen were 240.

You're entire point is really well put and well-taken. It's honest too. A lot of Geno detractors will say that Pat Head Summit's record at UT is the standard because of the conference she played-in, the difficulty of her grind week-in and week-out in the SEC over the years. But it's all subjective. It's like comparing the average margin of victory for each team tonight leading-up to this game. It's not really a reliable comparison for the same reason(s). But back to Geno's win-total ... his resume is just incredible. Absolutely incredible. By the time he is finished he may have untouchable numbers.

 

[EricLA]

You're entire point is really well put and well-taken. It's honest too. A lot of Geno detractors will say that Pat Head Summit's record at UT is the standard because of the conference she played-in, the difficulty of her grind week-in and week-out in the SEC over the years. But it's all subjective. It's like comparing the average margin of victory for each team tonight leading-up to this game. It's not really a reliable comparison for the same reason(s). But back to Geno's win-total ... his resume is just incredible. Absolutely incredible. By the time he is finished he may have untouchable numbers.

Actually it's not subjective. Over the past 15-20 years or so, UCONN's strength of schedule has not only almost always been in the top 10, but more often than not, in the top 5.

One could also point out that when Pat started, there was less parity in WCBB, the top teams consisted of Louisiana Tech, Old Dominion, Georgia, Auburn, and maybe USC/Texas at times. Bottom line tho, that argument is a fallacy that Tennessee fans have perpetuated over the years, but because they say it so loudly and often, some just assume it's true. And when UCONN's conference has been weak, they have gone out and beefed up the OOC games, which they do all the time anyway.

 

[scrooster]

Actually it's not subjective. Over the past 15-20 years or so, UCONN's strength of schedule has not only almost always been in the top 10, but more often than not, in the top 5.

Only because y'all have, to Geno's credit, played a tough OoC schedule to make-up for your weak conference schedule.

Or, you could prove me wrong by naming the power houses within your various conferences over the years.

 

[TroyHouse66]

Wirec-
<<I read this a.m.... ...that a victory tonight ties Bobby Knight's 902 total.>>
cohenz-
<<I don't like men and women basketball records being put on the same list.>>

WELL...
It's about time we had an established Women's College Basketball chair throwing category!!

 

[MuchoDogYears]

Only because y'all have, to Geno's credit, played a tough OoC schedule to make-up for your weak conference schedule.

Or, you could prove me wrong by naming the power houses within your various conferences over the years.

Might be wrong, but I think most WBB experts would agree that for (at least) the years 2005-2013 in which UConn played in the BE conference, it was the best WBB conference in the country. The SEC wasn't comparable. Point being, that while playing in the best conference in the country, UConn posted an incredible number of wins.

 

[Zorro]

PHS was a great recruiter and motivator, who happened to be in the right place at the right time, when wcbb was just getting under way. I have never seen anything on this, but I think it must have been a considerable achievement for her to get Tennessee fans to accept not only women's basketball, but also the fact that many of the young women she brought into her program were black, and I think she deserves great credit for having done so successfully. However, I do not think that she was ever a great coach, in terms of strategy, either offensive or defensive, especially offensive. Her offense and defense worked pretty well, simply because she had tremendous athletes to execute them. But on offense she stuck to the "chuck it up there and rebound like crazy" strategy from first to last, and on defense it was almost entirely individual man-on-man. And she was able to exact superhuman effort from her players because she scared them half to death. Geno is also a great recruiter and motivator, in his own way(s), but is infinitely better at devising and refining both offensive and defensive strategies. I remember PHS hiring Harry to come down and teach them the "motion offense", but I, for one, never saw any indication that they made any use of that lesson.

 

[TroyHouse66]

scrooster-
<<...imagine General Lee had he 5,000 Henry rifles and plenty of ammo and a Gatling Gun or two or three, or even one modern bolt action rifle....>>

Have you no shame, Suh?
The Whooah could have been won if the Confederate Whooah Dept just supplied mo' of the Whitworth rifle (see Sedgwick @ Spotsylvania C.H., May 9, 1864), the Williams Rapid Fire Cannon, the LeMat revolver, and the Whitworth Breechloading cannon.
Marse Rob't would not have had to go into this prolonged strategic retreat from Appomattox, had the Whooah Dept but a little insight.

 

[scrooster]

Might be wrong, but I think most WBB experts would agree that for (at least) the years 2005-2013 in which UConn played in the BE conference, it was the best WBB conference in the country. The SEC wasn't comparable. Point being, that while playing in the best conference in the country, UConn posted an incredible number of wins.

Wait ... wut?

You're saying that while UConn was in the Big East it was the best basketball conference in the country, from '05-'13?

I'm thinking both SEC and ACC fans might want to debate that contention.

As far as this year goes ... ://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Women.html

 

[EricLA]

Only because y'all have, to Geno's credit, played a tough OoC schedule to make-up for your weak conference schedule.

Or, you could prove me wrong by naming the power houses within your various conferences over the years.

Notre Dame, Rutgers, Depaul, Louisville, Syracuse, Villanova, Georgetown and SJU at times. The AAC is a cream puff league right now. The big east was decidedly not.

1. ND has been to the NCAA's a bunch of times along with a NC ring
2. Ruters has been to the NCAA 23 times
3. L'ville 13 times
4. Depaul 19 times
5. Villanova 11 times
6. Syracuse 4 times
7. Georgetown 4 times
8. SJU 7 times

Honestly, I don't have time or energy to go back and get statistics to find out the overall strength of schedule of UCONN for 900+ wins vs. Tennessee for 1,098 wins. But it's really stupid for people to say the only reason Geno won so many or did it so fast is because he played crap teams. REALLY stupid. When you are as good as UCONN (or as Tennessee was), there are only a few, if even a handful, of teams who can beat you anyway. UCONN plays lots of top 25 teams every year. And usually beats them all...

Just to clarify I'm not calling you stupid. But for any fan to make less of Geno's accomplishments because they argue he had an "easy schedule", or played in a crap conference, is stupid. And it's an argument that Tenn fans have made for years to belittle Geno's status as the best of all time.

 

[scrooster]

Notre Dame, Rutgers, Depaul, Louisville, Syracuse, Villanova, Georgetown and SJU at times. The AAC is a cream puff league right now. The big east was decidedly not.

1. ND has been to the NCAA's a bunch of times along with a NC ring
2. Ruters has been to the NCAA 23 times
3. L'ville 13 times
4. Depaul 19 times
5. Villanova 11 times
   
6. Syracuse 4 times
   
7. Georgetown 4 times
   
8. SJU 7 times

Honestly, I don't have time or energy to go back and get statistics to find out the overall strength of schedule of UCONN for 900+ wins vs. Tennessee for 1,098 wins. But it's really stupid for people to say the only reason Geno won so many or did it so fast is because he played crap teams. REALLY stupid. When you are as good as UCONN (or as Tennessee was), there are only a few, if even a handful, of teams who can beat you anyway. UCONN plays lots of top 25 teams every year. And usually beats them all...

Just to clarify I'm not calling you stupid. But for any fan to make less of Geno's accomplishments because they argue he had an "easy schedule" is stupid.

Totally agree ... it is stupid, really stupid, for people to contend that Geno's win record is padded with 80% weak teams.

But it's just as stupid to claim UConn played the toughest schedule in the country, under Geno, as well ... agreed?

Here again, it could get really subjective comparing strength of schedules between PHS' and Geno's over a three decade span of time. Stanford, Notre Dame, La Tech, LSU, Baylor, Louisville ... could all claim some pretty tough schedules over a given period of time.

 

[AnotherVolFan]

The whole Pat vs Geno...."whose the better coach" conversation can go a lot of different ways. In some peoples' eyes Pat will be the greatest ever, and to others Geno will be the greatest ever. I give credit when credit is due and BOTH coaches have done incredible jobs with their well respected basketball programs.I try not to get into that arguement cause both sides have a strong case and trust me....we could go on...and on...and on! Lol

 

[MuchoDogYears]

Wait ... wut?

You're saying that while UConn was in the Big East it was the best basketball conference in the country, from '05-'13?

I'm thinking both SEC and ACC fans might want to debate that contention.

As far as this year goes ... ://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Women.html

If there's a way to do so, ask the so-called "experts" which conference was the best in the country from 2005-2013. I'll put my... no, wait, Geno's... money on the "experts" saying it was the BE. Actually, I'd go along with whatever Dawn Staley says on this topic, if that seems fair enough. Ask her, see what Dawn says!

 

[EricLA]

Totally agree ... it is stupid, really stupid, for people to contend that Geno's win record is padded with 80% weak teams.

But it's just as stupid to claim UConn played the toughest schedule in the country, under Geno, as well ... agreed?

Here again, it could get really subjective comparing strength of schedules between PHS' and Geno's over a three decade span of time. Stanford, Notre Dame, La Tech, LSU, Baylor, Louisville ... could all claim some pretty tough schedules over a given period of time.

First, I have no idea what your first comment is about. Second, I never said UCONN played the toughest schedule in the country. Not once not ever. I don't recall EVER seeing a UCONN fan on this board say that either, but if you have some proof, feel free to back it up. Lastly, I'm not sure what you are evening arguing about, or what point you are actually trying to make.

 

[01Neaggrad02]

[QUOTE="ericsandiego, post: 1220423, member: 26" But it's really stupid for people to say the only reason Geno won so many or did it so fast is because he played crap teams. REALLY stupid. [/QUOTE]

So what the people are really saying is that UCONN plays weak competition yet somehow found ways to win 9 National Titles. So doesn't that make those 9 National titles look more impressive? That we played nobody's yet still won 9 titles against teams who played "killer" schedules????

 

[Oldbones]

It is worth noting that between 2005 and 2013 the NCAA championship game was contested by four different Big East teams (Louisville(2x), Rutgers(1X), Notre Dame(2X), UConn(3X) ) . During those same nine years UConn(3X) and Notre Dame (1X) lost in the semis. That means that of the 36 teams playing in the final four, 13 were from the Big East.

During the same 9 years, The SEC provided 6 teams (TENN 3X LSU 3X, and none since 2008)), The Big 12 provided 6 teams (Baylor 3x, Okla 2x, TAM 1x) The Pac 12 provided 6 teams (Stanford 5X, Cal 1x) The ACC Provided 4 (MD1X,,Duke 1X,NC 2X) the Big Ten 1(MSU)

This would also appear to show BE depth and successful representation during those nine years. It is also noteworthy that a Big East team won all five of the most recent championships before 2005.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I wouldn't get mired in a BE / SEC etc comparison. Like anything else, there are various criteria, etc.

What can be said is that the BE featured about 4 extremely strong teams each season and about 4 more NCAA bound teams that generally were not going to get past the 2nd round. A very strong conference, as the next few that didn't dance were often solid as well; the bottom 4, of course, were kind of crappy.

 

[EricLA]

It is worth noting that between 2005 and 2013 the NCAA championship game was contested by four different Big East teams (Louisville(2x), Rutgers(1X), Notre Dame(2X), UConn(3X) ) . During those same nine years UConn(3X) and Notre Dame (1X) lost in the semis. That means that of the 36 teams playing in the final four, 13 were from the Big East.

During the same 9 years, The SEC provided 6 teams (TENN 3X LSU 3X, and none since 2008)), The Big 12 provided 6 teams (Baylor 3x, Okla 2x, TAM 1x) The Pac 12 provided 6 teams (Stanford 5X, Cal 1x) The ACC Provided 4 (MD1X,,Duke 1X,NC 2X) the Big Ten 1(MSU)

This would also appear to show BE depth and successful representation during those nine years. It is also noteworthy that a Big East team won all five of the most recent championships before 2005.

Wish I could like this 10 times. Great reply to the topic of the weakness of the conference UCONN played in.

 

[chrissaran]

scrootster, Huskies 4 - Vols 0 in head-to-head in the championship game. 'Nuff said.

 

[AnotherVolFan]

scrootster, Huskies 4 - Vols 0 in head-to-head in the championship game. 'Nuff said.

If you're going to play that card....we still have 8 championships

 

[scrooster]

Wish I could like this 10 times. Great reply to the topic of the weakness of the conference UCONN played in.

There was a topic thread on that? I must have missed that thread.

 

[EricLA]

There was a topic thread on that? I must have missed that thread.

Maybe if you read a little bit?