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Domestic drone strikes - coming to a theater (of war) near you...

Discussion in 'Cesspool' started by OneTrickPony, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. uconnbill

    uconnbill Regular Poster

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    Show me where Bush ordered Drone attacks on US citizens in the US as a possibility at any time in his eight years. You are nothing more than another liberal who has no values of right or wrong when it comes to what this Whitehouse and administration wants.
     
  2. uconnfan68

    uconnfan68

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    Show me where Obama has ordered an attack before your panties get into a wad.
     
  3. uconnbill

    uconnbill Regular Poster

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    This is all I need to see to know this administration is stepping over a line that should never be crossed.
     
  4. temery

    temery What?

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    From what I've read, nobody has done anything other than answer a question by saying the administration has not used, nor has plans to use drones to harm US citizens on US soul.
     
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  5. temery

    temery What?

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    I want... No, need my own drone in order to protect myself from the government.
     
  6. temery

    temery What?

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    Make it an episode of 24 and you'd be reaching for the hand lotion.


    Quote from your article:

    In a letter to Paul dated on Monday, Holder said it was possible, "I suppose," to imagine an "extraordinary circumstance in which it would be necessary and appropriate" under U.S. law for the president to authorize the military to "use lethal force" within the United States.

    However, Holder said the question was "entirely hypothetical" and "unlikely to occur."

    The United States, he said, has not carried out such action domestically and had no plans to do so.
     
  7. cohenzone

    cohenzone Old Member

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    Temery, Bill needs an enemy in the White House to make his gun love seem necessary. Reality and Bill are unfamiliar with each other.
     
  8. OneTrickPony

    OneTrickPony Fearless Spectator...

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    I wonder if you can actually make an argument without once questioning the character of the people you are arguing with...I'd like to see if you can really do it...
     
  9. cohenzone

    cohenzone Old Member

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    The source is important.
     
  10. OneTrickPony

    OneTrickPony Fearless Spectator...

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    C'mon Mr. Cohen even a blind pig comes up with a truffle now and then...
     
  11. OneTrickPony

    OneTrickPony Fearless Spectator...

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    I was very concerned about the diminution of our civil rights after 9/11, if you really care to know...why don't you focus on the issue and give the character attacks a rest...just this one time...
     
  12. cohenzone

    cohenzone Old Member

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    I have a problem with Rand Paul taking about civil rights when he misunderstands the most basic of human rights. However, he asked for a legal opinion and then is troubled by the answer? Lawyers are used to clients who don't like the answer. Because something is legal doesn't mean it will be done.
     
  13. OneTrickPony

    OneTrickPony Fearless Spectator...

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    You mean for Hugo Chavez types...?
     
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  14. OneTrickPony

    OneTrickPony Fearless Spectator...

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    And doesn't provide any assurance that it won't either...I imagine the thrust of a legislator asking this question of Justice is an attempt to understand DOJ's view of the law for enforcement purposes in order to decide whether the law might require some refinement to accommodate the new technology...and before you start drawing 2nd Amendment comparisons, remember the issue here is assuring that law enforcement decisions don't undermine civil rights...
     
  15. OneTrickPony

    OneTrickPony Fearless Spectator...

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    If you see the potential for abuse, then why is trying to pin down how drones may be used inside the country laughable...?
     
  16. OneTrickPony

    OneTrickPony Fearless Spectator...

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    Actually, I was referring to the members of this board, but thank you for these...let me amend my statement...the silence on this board and the nonchalance of the usual strong advocates of civil rights to the domestic use of drones is rather, well, frightening...!
     
  17. Waquoit

    Waquoit

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    Still more dishonesty from you. To paraphrease Charles Pierce - "None of you wingers ever had a real objection that I ever heard to the drone program until it became the latest cudgel to use on That Person in the White House. (By comparison, Debbie Stabenow and Bernie Sanders have been dubious about it for months now, but they're Democrats and, therefore, do not count.)"
     
  18. cohenzone

    cohenzone Old Member

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    Because a weapons system can be used remotely doesn't mean the rules that apply to the use of deadly force change. That is what people like Bill don't get,IMHO. Grandkids up. Off for the day. Dialog on.;)
     
  19. OneTrickPony

    OneTrickPony Fearless Spectator...

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    Show me your expression of concern...
     
  20. OneTrickPony

    OneTrickPony Fearless Spectator...

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    That sounds remarkably like the exact opposite argument you used to pooh pooh the idea that the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms should apply to weapons typically only used in theaters of war. Pretty good flexibility for an old guy...! ;)

    Have fun with the grandkids!
     
  21. businesslawyer

    businesslawyer

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    Of course, someone's hypocrisy doesn't change the substance of the issue in any way, does it?

    I tend to side with Senator Paul on this one. I can't see the reason to allow domestic military acts against U.S. citizens at the present time. Having said that, there are two sides. We didn't need court orders to allow U.S. troops to fire at Confederate soldiers, even thought the U.S.'s position then was that the Confederate soldiers, despite what they thought/said, were U.S. citizens being shot at on U.S. soil. So we also know that all of our "inalienable rights" can be suspended in times for war, for good or bad.
     
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  22. Waquoit

    Waquoit

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    I agree with Paul on this and I think also Holder was full of crap when he called the Swatz case "a good use of prosecutorial discretion". The main point here for me is the hand wringing from the right that wouldn't be happening with the same set of facts if Romney won.
     
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  23. OneTrickPony

    OneTrickPony Fearless Spectator...

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    I liked this response...except that I don't think saying everyone is a hypocrite is a great defense against an accusation of hypocrisy...
     
  24. RS9999X

    RS9999X There's no Dark Side .....it's all Dark.

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    There is an industry that stands to make great money selling tech to police forces. Think Robocop. Surveillance in public areas is permitted by law as is force when a threat is apparent.

    Salon had this article 15 months ago

    http://www.salon.com/2011/12/12/the_growing_menace_of_domestic_drones/

    People thinking drones won't be used for surveillance and armed force when deemed necessary are crazy. Potentially much cheaper than police helicopters for surveillance and tracking
    .
    Then there's nano-drones for surveillance\\

    The US is in competition against Israel, England, Russia and China for development and deployment of nano-drones.

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/israel-secret-air-force-plan/n

    We will see a revolution in police surveillance, apprehension and attack during the next 20 years. Lone crazed gun man and escapees getting tasered by a swarm of nano-drones. Embedded tracking chips in prisoners to aid drone trackers automated when a prisoner goes off the reservation.
    .
    Far better than ankle bracelets. PLay at home. Celebrity Rehab taser edition. Order your nano-drone to shock Lindsay Lohan. Better than the Hunger Games
     
  25. Scalito

    Scalito Eeyore

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    I agree with you that we will quickly reach a point where the use of drones for domestic surveillance will become a problem for all the reasons you stated. The Supreme Court has previously held that the police don't need a warrant to fly a plane over private property and snap pictures. When it is costly to do that, as it is now, most of us aren't affected. When it's cheap? Time for a legislative intervention.
     
  26. temery

    temery What?

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    The question was not about how drones would be used inside the country.

    “The U.S. Attorney General’s refusal to rule out the possibility of drone strikes on American citizens and on American soil is more than frightening, it is an affront to the Constitutional due process rights of all Americans,” said Paul in a statement.

    Holder was asks a question about a hypothetical situation - drone strikes on US citizens on US soil. I would have preferred he refuse to answer hypothetical question, but his response was still good.

    Do you seriously not envision any situation in which a domestic drone attack would be the best option?
     
  27. temery

    temery What?

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    In what situation do you believe anyone has said domestic use of drones attacks against US citizens would be warranted?

    Answer the question without using the word "hypothetical" or a synonym for "hypothetical" and you get bonus points.
     
  28. OneTrickPony

    OneTrickPony Fearless Spectator...

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    Is that really the question...or is the question more about using weapons that have been accused of causing substantial collateral damage in war zones in non-war zones?

    There has been substantial comment by Progressives on this board, that conservatives...presumably hawkish ones...didn't raise objections when Bush used drones in war zones against enemy combatants that were not American citizens. I'm not sure how that diminishes concerns for their use domestically against US citizens,. And the idea that they could be used to attack US Citizens bearing arms in accordance with the 2nd Amendment...broached here on the board...is far more frightening than anything Eric Holder has said...I thought the lessons learned with the Branch Davidians was that Draconian use of force against anarchists was a troubling measure of overkill...?

    And lastly, I find all these comments particularly poignant coming on the heels of the eulogies issued by US Progressives for the late revolutionary, Hugo Chavez...

    I'm not directing all these comments to you because of anything in particular you've said or not said...just interested in your reaction...
     
  29. OneTrickPony

    OneTrickPony Fearless Spectator...

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    Well, here's the specific comment I was referring to...but looking back over the thread there are at least two or three others right here...

     
  30. OneTrickPony

    OneTrickPony Fearless Spectator...

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    uconnbill likes this.