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Depth Chart Changes: Homecoming

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Husky25

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I will respectfully disagree; it is cutting corners.

The frustrating thing about this thread is that it continues a theme of taking something other than facts and spinning them out of control. Who is the 4th corner this week? According to media reports it is HADLEY, not Brice. Diaco HAS to burn ONE red shirt, period. You do get that? You do see that he was trying to RS both Brice and Hadley. He will likely try and avoid burning 2. But he will not punish the other kids on the team who are trying to learn, do the right thing, and win by pulling you and me out of the stands and lining us up at corner to protect a RS.
It's not really cutting corners. The Redshirt is a valuable tool, but you can't determine who you try to redshirt in a vacuum. The plan was to RS Boyle, but that was when two able QBs were ahead of him. There are some who believe he still should not have played at all in any game in an effort to keep his redshirt. I've come to terms with burning his Redshirt over the last 2 months, because while trying to keep it is good in theory and works on the PlayStation, real life is far different. Real life doesn't have a reset button. In real life, both QB's need to prepare as if they are going to play. In real life, the backup needs to be mentally ready to go into the game if the starter gets hurt.

Same thing here. The one thing I agree with Whaler whole heartedly is that McAllister is on the two deep only because Jones got hurt. If he didn't get hurt, this discussion does not happen, but given the teams' resources and talent level, McAllister is next man up. So be it.

Here is a tweet from Jon Kiem
John Keim@john_keim Follow
bashaud Breeland is the pick. CB...Skins looking for a guy who can help at this spot in 2015 and beyond. don't need big contributions in '14

Breeland was a 4th round pick and expected to play sparingly (Nickel and Dime packages, if that). Then D'Angelo Hall tore his ACL and Breeland just turned in his first monster performance (of hopefully many more) on Monday Night for the 'Skins.
 

whaler11

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It's not really cutting corners. The Redshirt is a valuable tool, but you can't determine who you try to redshirt in a vacuum. The plan was to RS Boyle, but that was when two able QBs were ahead of him. There are some who believe he still should not have played at all in any game in an effort to keep his redshirt. I've come to terms with burning his Redshirt over the last 2 months, because while trying to keep it is good in theory and works on the PlayStation, real life is far different. Real life doesn't have a reset button. In real life, both QB's need to prepare as if they are going to play. In real life, the backup needs to be mentally ready to go into the game if the starter gets hurt.

Same thing here. The one thing I agree with Whaler whole heartedly is that McAllister is on the two deep only because Jones got hurt. If he didn't get hurt, this discussion does not happen, but given the teams' resources and talent level, McAllister is next man up. So be it.

Here is a tweet from Jon Kiem
John Keim@john_keim Follow
bashaud Breeland is the pick. CB...Skins looking for a guy who can help at this spot in 2015 and beyond. don't need big contributions in '14

Breeland was a 4th round pick and expected to play sparingly (Nickel and Dime packages, if that). Then D'Angelo Hall tore his ACL and Breeland just turned in his first monster performance (of hopefully many more) on Monday Night for the 'Skins.

They have not needed to play Boyle yet. They could have redshirted him. He's contributed nothing and has gotten nothing out of how he's been used.
 
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We are not getting college ready recruits like Alabama and the like get. Redshirting at UConn should be the norm, not the exception. We always had depth on Edsall teams Why? Because he knew this.
 
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Redshirting is not a luxury for a 1-6 team. It's a necessity. It's how a program like UConn creates the depth you claim to need to have.

This conversation is lunacy.

Wowzers.

So instead of sticking with the concept of man down - next man up (regardless of the plan to establish who the next man is) - instead of sticking with that singular concept of winning - the concept that man down, next man up - lets go get after a win ....you think that should be scrapped this season for "man down - find a scrub body to sacrifice until we try to win next season."

Wouldn't have figured you a guy to have that attitude whaler.
 
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We are not getting college ready recruits like Alabama and the like get. Redshirting at UConn should be the norm, not the exception. We always had depth on Edsall teams Why? Because he knew this.

Chicken or egg - which comes first - adequate depth charts or redshirting?
 
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They have not needed to play Boyle yet. They could have redshirted him. He's contributed nothing and has gotten nothing out of how he's been used.

I don't agree with the 2 QB rotation - I"ve been clear about that, but this pretty bold, to claim that the player has gotten nothing out of his participation with this program this year, and vice versa, that the program has gotten nothing in return from him. His production on the field is lacking, but I'm 100% positive, that if he was not a productive player individually and contributing to the team, he wouldn't be on the roster.

Chill out whaler.
 

Husky25

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uconndogs...I certainly hope you are right for UConn's sake. Brian Kelly brought Charley Molnar from Central Michigan to Cincinnati and then to Notre Dame. Let me tell you that Charley Molnar is a fool.
I'm not saying BD is Molnar and as a UConn football fan I sincerely hope that he isn't. I just wouldn't put much credence in Brian Kelly assistants. I get the sense that Kelly's ego does not allow him to delegate too much of the decision making.

Molnar was put into no win situation in western Massachusetts. First, he was OC for only 2 years under Kelly. Jeff Quinn was OC in Cinci. Secondly, neither he, nor the program in general had the full faith and backing of the UMass administration, and if you think 25 miles is too long to travel for home games, it's a solid hour and a half from Amherst to Foxboro (longer by bus). UMass effectively played 12 away games a season.

The following passage speaks volumes as well (emphasis added): "[UMASS Athletic Director John McCutcheon] said he’s already heard from a few players and their parents, and that many were concerned about the fate of the team’s strength and conditioning program -- the first season in which the football team has had a dedicated strength and conditioning coach -- which they felt strongly about keeping."

It's no wonder Diaco revamped the S&C staff almost immediately after getting here. Diaco was the country best non-head coach after the 2012 season and he wasn't just a coordinator. He was associate head coach of a recent powerhouse.
 

Husky25

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They have not needed to play Boyle yet. They could have redshirted him. He's contributed nothing and has gotten nothing out of how he's been used.
Boyle is not a robot. He's not bites of data that has no emotion. I agree that he probably should not be put in for a series each game, but he has to being the mind set that he is not going to redshirt. Subconsciously, it's near impossible not to lose some focus when you know you are not going to play.
 

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Boyle is not a robot. He's not bites of data that has no emotion. I agree that he probably should not be put in for a series each game, but he has to being the mind set that he is not going to redshirt. Subconsciously, it's near impossible not to lose some focus when you know you are not going to play.

He wouldn't know he's not going to play. He'd know he was going to play if Whitmer got hurt. Sort of like hundreds of other quarterbacks at every level.

Jmoney gave the easiest solution. If Whitmer gets hurt in game, Foxx mops up and Boyle starts the next game. Outcome is redshirt is preserved unless it needs to be used.

Seriously that isn't better than what Boyle's gotten to date?
 

whaler11

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I don't agree with the 2 QB rotation - I"ve been clear about that, but this pretty bold, to claim that the player has gotten nothing out of his participation with this program this year, and vice versa, that the program has gotten nothing in return from him. His production on the field is lacking, but I'm 100% positive, that if he was not a productive player individually and contributing to the team, he wouldn't be on the roster.

Chill out whaler.

Well based on what we can actually see from Boyle is that his contribution on the field is a net negative. Theoretical contributions are nice and all - but he hasn't improved and he hasn't contributed positive results so not sure why it's proven to be so wise.
 
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Redshirting players is the opposite of cutting corners. It's showing patience and taking the long view.

If you think UConn can be successful in the long term not redshirting players in general I'd strongly disagree with that. When you aren't landing top shelf recruits ready to step in and play it's how you build depth and put players on the field after they have developed rather than before.

This makes sense also but keep in mind we lost Tyree Clark and David Stevenson before the season. That was the depth at the position. I think this move is out of sheer necessity and. BD'S hands are sorta tied here.
 
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Maybe a debate at game 1. Not a debate at 1-6.

I think this is where you and I differ from the rest on the other side of this. We are not playing BYU next week. We're at game 7. You don't make the same decisions you do in week 1.

From what I remember neither one of us griped about Summers playing against BYU. Or Carrezola. Or Diggs. Or Newsome. Or Johnson. Or any other true frosh. Week 1 I have no issue with it. Week 7 is just insane. And it's not a neccesity. I wish people would stop saying that.
 

whaler11

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I think this is where you and I differ from the rest on the other side of this. We are not playing BYU next week. We're at game 7. You don't make the same decisions you do in week 1.

From what I remember neither one of us griped about Summers playing against BYU. Or Carrezola. Or Diggs. Or Newsome. Or Johnson. Or any other true frosh. Week 1 I have no issue with it. Week 7 is just insane. And it's not a neccesity. I wish people would stop saying that.

You don't make the same decision if you are 1-6 versus 4-3 or 6-1 either.

I would have liked to redshirt one of the running backs but it was clear there was no way it was happening so it wasn't even worth discussing.
 

whaler11

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There has to be a point in the season where people would agree.

If they were 2-8 and it was pre Memphis would you not think it was a wasted move?

Is this something you support for 3 games? 2 games? 1 game?
 
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I think this is where you and I differ from the rest on the other side of this. We are not playing BYU next week. We're at game 7. You don't make the same decisions you do in week 1.

From what I remember neither one of us griped about Summers playing against BYU. Or Carrezola. Or Diggs. Or Newsome. Or Johnson. Or any other true frosh. Week 1 I have no issue with it. Week 7 is just insane. And it's not a neccesity. I wish people would stop saying that.

I see Jamar Summers, and Jhavon Hadley as starters. After that I see converted WR John Green, and true soph who they were either RS or was hurt/nicked up, because I haven't seen much of him, Javon Hadley. The rest of the CBs are walk ons I believe, unless I'm missing someone. Since the last game of last year we lost Clark, Stevensone and now Byron Jones. Diaco MUST see it as a necissity regardless of what we think. If Ellis Marder was healthy I believe he could play safety and corner. Am I missing a CB off the roster?
 

Husky25

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He wouldn't know he's not going to play. He'd know he was going to play if Whitmer got hurt. Sort of like hundreds of other quarterbacks at every level.

Jmoney gave the easiest solution. If Whitmer gets hurt in game, Foxx mops up and Boyle starts the next game. Outcome is redshirt is preserved unless it needs to be used.

Seriously that isn't better than what Boyle's gotten to date?
It's a decent consideration, but the point is moot. For all intents and purposes, it wasn't an option at the time.

The coaches don't have to explicitly or publicly state that the goal is to redshirt, but if Boyle has it in the back of his mind (based on coach's actions) that this is the end goal, there exists a high probability that his focus wanes. It's human nature.

There is also the risk of a disenfranchised Boyle transferring. Regardless of who comes in in February and Boyle's ability to those true freshmen and transfer, it's typically advantageous to have a QB with some experience in the offense.
 
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Well based on what we can actually see from Boyle is that his contribution on the field is a net negative. Theoretical contributions are nice and all - but he hasn't improved and he hasn't contributed positive results so not sure why it's proven to be so wise.

That's different than what you wrote before, and I agree with it. The 2 - QB rotation is an issue that is tough to reconcile this season.

One thing I've really had some time to focus on this past month with no home games, is just how YOUNG this team is. Our active roster of players ahs a lot of youth on it. We're looking at LOTS of players in the 18-20 year old range - out there on the field competing. With the way last season closed out, and the overwhelming positive energy that Diaco brought in through the offseason, I personally had very high expectations going into the season. Misguided a bit - apparently - and I still think we should have at least beat Tulane to go with Stony Brook - and that I'm hanging square on Diaco and staff for game planning and game time decisions.....but we went into this season with a very young roster collectively, and the few that have been around for significant time, going through yet another new rotation of coaches and systems, which for the seniors numbers as many as 5 coaches in as many years. Still - duck_KING TULANE......I won't forget that one. USF too - winnable games...which leads me to my next point.....

Growth, development, learning.

It's pretty clear that players are developing - but to expect 100% success rate, is not realistic.....hard fact of life. Boyle, unfortunately, as you correctly note by what's observable IMNSHO - is not developing well with regards to showing consistent improvement on the field at game time. It's wrong to conclude that he's not productive for himself and the team in other ways - away from the field - which is what I got out of what you wrote before. You don't know that, nor do I. But it's reasonable to think, that because he's still on the roster and getting playing time, that he is being productive in the program that Diaco has put in place, as opposed to other players that have been a round, and seen playing time before, but are either sidelined now, or gone from the roster in the past calendar year.

I think there has been a lot of individual player growth, development over the course of the season. I'm not sure about the coaching staff themselves though - because....F---king USF and Tulane. I'm looking forward to seeing the team develop as well as the players and coaches individually. That happens with wins. I want to see it start Saturday, not next fall.

I'm just blabbering on the keyboard at this point with no direction really, other than I want to see the team develop at the same kind of rate that I'm seeing player development.
 
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I think this is where you and I differ from the rest on the other side of this. We are not playing BYU next week. We're at game 7. You don't make the same decisions you do in week 1.

From what I remember neither one of us griped about Summers playing against BYU. Or Carrezola. Or Diggs. Or Newsome. Or Johnson. Or any other true frosh. Week 1 I have no issue with it. Week 7 is just insane. And it's not a neccesity. I wish people would stop saying that.

Perhaps, just perhaps, he sees McAllister as a contributor next year and thinks that game experience now will have him better prepared for that in 2015. The debate is being presented as 2014 vs. 2018 but forgetting the two years in between that as if they are already lost. I certainly hope that isn't the case, and don't think that the coaches think it is.
 
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There are enough CB's on the roster to cover for the remaining 5 games. Williams, Summers, Hadley, Green, DeBerry and a few other walkons.

Playing McAllister now just defies common sense.

This was your answer to my question, if not McAllister then who?

There are not enough scholarship recruits to field an adequate defensive coverage shell. You would rather save McAllister for next season and play practice squad/walk ons - with 5 games remaining. It's a vaild point, because a 5 game winning streak to a bowl game right now, is probably not expected by anybody except 1 poster on this website - so why play him now? I get your point.

my point is that you play to win, and coach to win always. And I freely admit, that a lot has happened this season, to make me wonder, if we've actually been doing that or not as a program from the coaches. But this decision, regarding the players 4th and down on the depth chart at DB, is very clearly - a decision made to play and coach to win - now - and I'm perfectly fine with that., and my point is also a valid point and very much up for argument - as to the consistency of whether or not we've been doing that all season. Personally, I've seen signs lately, lots of them, that we are actually coaching and playing to win - now - and to me - late is better than never. Just be consistent from here on is all I want.

Putting a walk on in the roster, is not consistent with coaching and playing to win now.

FWIW: I'm happy, that there are a few of us left, that are still passionate enough about this program to be arguing over the 5th DB on the 2-deep roster. If there is enough for that, there is enough to grow it all back again. So thanks Jimmy and Whaler - for caring.
 

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It's a decent consideration, but the point is moot. For all intents and purposes, it wasn't an option at the time.

The coaches don't have to explicitly or publicly state that the goal is to redshirt, but if Boyle has it in the back of his mind (based on coach's actions) that this is the end goal, there exists a high probability that his focus wanes. It's human nature.

There is also the risk of a disenfranchised Boyle transferring. Regardless of who comes in in February and Boyle's ability to those true freshmen and transfer, it's typically advantageous to have a QB with some experience in the offense.

It was absolutely available at the time.

How would that disenfranchise Boyle more than what they have done?
 

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Perhaps, just perhaps, he sees McAllister as a contributor next year and thinks that game experience now will have him better prepared for that in 2015. The debate is being presented as 2014 vs. 2018 but forgetting the two years in between that as if they are already lost. I certainly hope that isn't the case, and don't think that the coaches think it is.

Then why wait until game 8? They played players at multiple positions they didn't need to play.
 
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It's a decent consideration, but the point is moot. For all intents and purposes, it wasn't an option at the time.

The coaches don't have to explicitly or publicly state that the goal is to redshirt, but if Boyle has it in the back of his mind (based on coach's actions) that this is the end goal, there exists a high probability that his focus wanes. It's human nature.

There is also the risk of a disenfranchised Boyle transferring. Regardless of who comes in in February and Boyle's ability to those true freshmen and transfer, it's typically advantageous to have a QB with some experience in the offense.

The only thing I agree with is that it's a moot point.

The thought that Boyle would be more disenfranchised had they redshirted him as opposed to how they've actually used him is LOL funny.
 
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Then why wait until game 8? They played players at multiple positions they didn't need to play.

As to part 1, circumstances changed.

As to your second point, I agree, particularly with Boyle, which is why I'm only speculating here. He's made some really puzzling personnel decisions. Each may be defensible on its own but overall he appears to just be acting randomly . . .
 
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Molnar was put into no win situation in western Massachusetts. First, he was OC for only 2 years under Kelly. Jeff Quinn was OC in Cinci. Secondly, neither he, nor the program in general had the full faith and backing of the UMass administration, and if you think 25 miles is too long to travel for home games, it's a solid hour and a half from Amherst to Foxboro (longer by bus). UMass effectively played 12 away games a season.

The following passage speaks volumes as well (emphasis added): "[UMASS Athletic Director John McCutcheon] said he’s already heard from a few players and their parents, and that many were concerned about the fate of the team’s strength and conditioning program -- the first season in which the football team has had a dedicated strength and conditioning coach -- which they felt strongly about keeping."

It's no wonder Diaco revamped the S&C staff almost immediately after getting here. Diaco was the country best non-head coach after the 2012 season and he wasn't just a coordinator. He was associate head coach of a recent powerhouse.


I'm not sure where the strength and conditioning coach concerns are coming from. Mike Golden is finishing up his second year in that position and there are no rumors of change there. He's done a great job and the kids have bought in. He was actually the UConn S & C coach from 1998-2000. The only thing I can think of is the period right after Whipple got hired. There was some concern over which coaches, if any, would be retained. Golden was one of if not the first coach that Whip hired.

As far as Molnar, my disparaging comment goes much deeper than his W/L record. He was run out of town amid physical/ mental abuse allegations that were being investigated. He is unfit to be a head coach anywhere. Wide receivers coach at Idaho is a good place for him!
 
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