Dennis Dodd: Big Ten expansion not done...stay tuned | Page 9 | The Boneyard

Dennis Dodd: Big Ten expansion not done...stay tuned

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The following article suggests that the ACC network will be delayed and may never get off the ground.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2013/05/20/Media/ACC-net.aspx?app_data={"pi":"35762_1369068703_166310064","pt":"twitter"}

The most glaring point in the article, to me, anyways, was the question of whether or not the ACC had waited too long to undertake this project. They had the opportunity to take this step as far back as 2007, but, passed on it at that time.

Its a given that if the league does decide to get one, it will be a 3-4 year process. I believe that ESPN can, and will, work out a deal with Raycom for their share of the ACC's broadcast rights. Part of which will be keeping Raycom involved in some small capacity. Attempting to reacquire the rights Raycom sublicensed to Fox is going to be another matter altogether. Seventeen football and 25 basketball games does not seem like a huge amount, but, that is content that an ACCN will NEED to exist.
 
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The most glaring point in the article, to me, anyways, was the question of whether or not the ACC had waited too long to undertake this project. They had the opportunity to take this step as far back as 2007, but, passed on it at that time.

Its a given that if the league does decide to get one, it will be a 3-4 year process. I believe that ESPN can, and will, work out a deal with Raycom for their share of the ACC's broadcast rights. Part of which will be keeping Raycom involved in some small capacity. Attempting to reacquire the rights Raycom sublicensed to Fox is going to be another matter altogether. Seventeen football and 25 basketball games does not seem like a huge amount, but, that is content that an ACCN will NEED to exist.

The decision will ultimately be up to ESPN and not the league. ESPN has to decide if it less costly/more profitable to pay out $2M per school or launch the network in the coming years.
 
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Like one person noted, for the Big Ten in any expansion, ''first comes football: Penn St,/Nebraska; next comes TV markets: Maryland/Rutgers; then comes basketball: Kansas/UNC.''
 
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What do you think will be different? Who will still be there, and, who will be gone, in your opinion? I am honestly curious.

With this new huge money era in college athletics combined with traditional university presidents change will happen in 14 years. The ACC, B1G, and BIG 12 will be different team wise.

I'm not directly picking on the ACC, although I do take jabs at UNC. My difficulty with Carolina stems from my belief that 10 years ago they were considered probably the top university (athletic and academic wise), and since then they sold out to unethical self minded individuals which have, and continue to, take huge bites out of Carolina's reputation. If they continue in these ways they will challenge the SEC schools for operating with that brand of college athletics.

I have no idea what changes will take place in the ACC in the next 14 years. Perhaps Texas joins, perhaps UVA gets tired of this new ACC and realizes the B1G is more academically and traditionally in step with UVA's college beliefs, or perhaps FSU moves for more money, or Charlie Strong continues to bring his UM style of college football recruiting to UL and the ACC throws them out. A lot can happen over 14 years. I just hope Carolina changes course and regains the national respect it once held so high.

But I'm a UConn fan and I'm so pleased with KO and the direction of his program. Geno speaks for himself, and when he breaks Wooden's NCAA championship record I hope the nation realizes what a great accomplishment UConn's women bb is. Lastly UConn fb is on the rise, and although PP is not my favorite, I believe the next coach will impress just like KO with his leadership. As a friend in the ACC higherarchy has told me, "Don't worry, UConn is a strong state supported school and will be fine."
 
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With this new huge money era in college athletics combined with traditional university presidents change will happen in 14 years. The ACC, B1G, and BIG 12 will be different team wise.

I'm not directly picking on the ACC, although I do take jabs at UNC. My difficulty with Carolina stems from my belief that 10 years ago they were considered probably the top university (athletic and academic wise), and since then they sold out to unethical self minded individuals which have, and continue to, take huge bites out of Carolina's reputation. If they continue in these ways they will challenge the SEC schools for operating with that brand of college athletics.

I have no idea what changes will take place in the ACC in the next 14 years. Perhaps Texas joins, perhaps UVA gets tired of this new ACC and realizes the B1G is more academically and traditionally in step with UVA's college beliefs, or perhaps FSU moves for more money, or Charlie Strong continues to bring his UM style of college football recruiting to UL and the ACC throws them out. A lot can happen over 14 years. I just hope Carolina changes course and regains the national respect it once held so high.

But I'm a UConn fan and I'm so pleased with KO and the direction of his program. Geno speaks for himself, and when he breaks Wooden's NCAA championship record I hope the nation realizes what a great accomplishment UConn's women bb is. Lastly UConn fb is on the rise, and although PP is not my favorite, I believe the next coach will impress just like KO with his leadership. As a friend in the ACC higherarchy has told me, "Don't worry, UConn is a strong state supported school and will be fine."

Much wisdom in that post.
 
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The decision will ultimately be up to ESPN and not the league. ESPN has to decide if it less costly/more profitable to pay out $2M per school or launch the network in the coming years.

Very true, although, I'd hope they get one, and, have UConn be a member if it comes to pass.
 
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Like one person noted, for the Big Ten in any expansion, ''first comes football: Penn St,/Nebraska; next comes TV markets: Maryland/Rutgers; then comes basketball: Kansas/UNC.''

I personally do not see UNC joining the B1G. Had the ACC collapsed last summer, Carolina was headed to the SEC. At least from what the Rams Club (UNC boosters) members I spoke to say. But, who really knows what might've happened.
 
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With this new huge money era in college athletics combined with traditional university presidents change will happen in 14 years. The ACC, B1G, and BIG 12 will be different team wise.

I'm not directly picking on the ACC, although I do take jabs at UNC. My difficulty with Carolina stems from my belief that 10 years ago they were considered probably the top university (athletic and academic wise), and since then they sold out to unethical self minded individuals which have, and continue to, take huge bites out of Carolina's reputation. If they continue in these ways they will challenge the SEC schools for operating with that brand of college athletics.

Thats pretty much my take as well. I do not know how long you have lived in NC, but, the University has not had a strong, principled leader as chancellor since Dr Michael Hooker passed away in 1999. It has also failed to follow former UNC President William Friday's advice to 'not let the athletic tail wag the academic dog.' Which is why the misconduct that occured happened in the first place. Too many members of the BORs do not place the same emphasis on 'education first, athletics second,' that they did. And, its reputation has been smeared from a mess of its own making because of it.

I have no idea what changes will take place in the ACC in the next 14 years. Perhaps Texas joins, perhaps UVA gets tired of this new ACC and realizes the B1G is more academically and traditionally in step with UVA's college beliefs, or perhaps FSU moves for more money, or Charlie Strong continues to bring his UM style of college football recruiting to UL and the ACC throws them out. A lot can happen over 14 years. I just hope Carolina changes course and regains the national respect it once held so high.

You and me both. Its pretty hard watching the buck get passed around, concerning blame, when it was obvious that ALL of the adults supposedly in charge were either asleep at the wheel. Or, chose to turn a blind eye to it.

But I'm a UConn fan and I'm so pleased with KO and the direction of his program. Geno speaks for himself, and when he breaks Wooden's NCAA championship record I hope the nation realizes what a great accomplishment UConn's women bb is. Lastly UConn fb is on the rise, and although PP is not my favorite, I believe the next coach will impress just like KO with his leadership. As a friend in the ACC higherarchy has told me, "Don't worry, UConn is a strong state supported school and will be fine."

I think UConn made a great choice with KO. He looks like a keeper. Real hoops fans see what Geno has done, and, realise just how difficult it is to not just build a program to that level, but, to keep it there annually. UConn FB will be just fine. PP might not be the answer, but, your powers-that-be have shown that they recognise coaching talent. You will get a HC to bring FB up to where you all expect it to be.

Lastly, your ACC friend is correct. And, I still believe they are pushing for UConn behind the scenes.
 
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no you won't. they banned me on that board after we beat them last year and i hadn't even posted yet about it. they're board does not tolerate other fans. at least not me
Yeah SU's board is too quick on the banning-trigger for fan's of other school's!I got banned there too just for being right about a recruit they swore would choose SU over RU and when he chose RU rather than admit they were wrong I found I was banned w/o even a by your leave sir or explanation!I sent him a message later calling him a commie lol!Lately I found I can get in just to lurk but the lack of opposing points of view makes for nothing but a cheering section rather than an exchange of knowledge or information...its become a boring board listening to a single point of view!
 

RMoore1999

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I give up. Everyone on this board is right. The GoR's have massive holes you could drive a truck through. They aren't really contracts at all. All these high pticed lawyers that drafted the actual agreements, and a lot of the posters on this board, don't know half as much as PJ and rmoore and Mr. Wonderful.

In fact, it turns out a content provider can sell their media rights as many times as they want under this new theory.

I have said:
  • "Thanks" for explaining to everyone the educational background entitling one to charge in excess of a Grand per hour.
  • I feed my children pet food (dry).
To quote PJ, "You seem to be unable to read."

But no worries, posters like you and HFD are in large part what make this place entertaining to visit from time to time.....
 

whaler11

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Here is the thing about North Carolina. If they wanted to be in the Big 10 they would have just joined and not signed a GOR.

Just like Florida State - they want to be in the ACC. I'm pretty sure UConn fans know who Ron Cherry is.
 
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Here is the thing about North Carolina. If they wanted to be in the Big 10 they would have just joined and not signed a GOR.

Exactly right. The University has influence within the ACC. They would not give that up to go to the B1G.

Just like Florida State - they want to be in the ACC. I'm pretty sure UConn fans know who Ron Cherry is.

Has Ron Cherry actually officiated a UConn game? If he has, I am sure that he or a member of his crew have blown a few pretty obvious calls during the game...LOL.
 
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Is
Has Ron Cherry actually officiated a UConn game? If he has, I am sure that he or a member of his crew have blown a few pretty obvious calls during the game...LOL.

Is Ron Cherry the one related to coach K?
 

whaler11

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Has Ron Cherry actually officiated a UConn game? If he has, I am sure that he or a member of his crew have blown a few pretty obvious calls during the game...LOL.

LOL. Yeah there may have been one. South Carolina got beat up.
 
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LOL. Yeah there may have been one. South Carolina got beat up.

Whenever his crew misses an obvious call, or, makes one, that costs you a game, we call that 'geting Ron Cherry-ed.' LOL.
 
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For the short team yes, I think they could stomach that (isn't the Big12 GOR up in like 2018 or is it 2022?).

And the reason is two-fold:

1) the B1G would get the rights to all of the road KU match-ups with B1G clubs (most importantly in bball) without having to pay KU anything. Don't you think having KU/OSU; KU/UM; KU/ILL in bball is worth letting the Big12 air home games for a few years?

2) by virtue of having the rights to all of KU's road games (at least when they play in conference) they can force BTN onto KS/MO cable networks well in advance of the GOR expiration.

And remember, the B1G would get all of the above without having to pay anything. This is why the protestation that the Big12 is more stable than the ACC makes no sense. The ACC has an exit fee, the Big12 does not.
So Kansas leaves the big 12 with no monetary penalty?
Not sure it's that easy...

Can't see the GOR having any teeth if a school can leave, still get paid by the old conference and get some checks from the new.

I'm guessing once a school leaves, those conference checks get cut to zero.

Without some legal loophole, either Kansas or the big would need to take a hit. Not sure why Kansas would sign up for that...
 
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I personally do not see UNC joining the B1G. Had the ACC collapsed last summer, Carolina was headed to the SEC. At least from what the Rams Club (UNC boosters) members I spoke to say. But, who really knows what might've happened.

If the ACC exploded today, yes, UNC would go to the SEC. If the ACC holds it together for 10 to 20 years. Not sure. With the flood of transplants from the Northeast and Midwest invading NC, especially Charlotte and RTP, the state may look more ‘blue’ by then and lean towards the B1G.
 
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If the ACC exploded today, yes, UNC would go to the SEC. If the ACC holds it together for 10 to 20 years. Not sure. With the flood of transplants from the Northeast and Midwest invading NC, especially Charlotte and RTP, the state may look more ‘blue’ by then and lean towards the B1G.

Good post, and, very fair points.

It'd be a battle, for sure. I am certain that the faculty and research arm of the University would prefer the stronger academics of the B1G. But, the rank and file of the fanbase would want to remain in the more regionally comfortable SEC. That'd be my personal preference.

Don't misunderstand me, membership in the B1G would a prise in and of itself. Institutionally speaking, UNC has more in common with those institutions. But, the SEC would mean shorter trips to away games, and, more of our fans could attend. Not to mention, cut down on travel for our Olympic sport athletes.
 

nelsonmuntz

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It was high priced lawyers that approved these agreements as well. They are no dummies either. Nobody said breaking the contract would be clear cut and easy, but all contracts have provisions for termination. ESPN or FOX, the conference, and each school likely has termination clauses. When invoked, the departing party would be subject to adhearing to additional clauses for media rights (ie home games remain with network) or monetary damages or a combination of both. Because no network wants to televise a competing conference's games, a network will sue for monetary damages. Just like every other contract that exists, it is always about the money.

Sales contracts don't have termination provisions. Once media rights are sold, they are sold. That is the end of it. To beat the GOR, the league that is losing the team would have to simply release that school out of the goodness of their heart. Why would a conference do that?

Here is what would happen if Kansas tried to leave the Big 12 for the Big 10. They would not have the media rights to any home games, period. They would also have created damages to every Big 12 school that was expecting Kansas to visit. If you take the per school ($22-24/year) and divide by 7 homes games, each home game is worth about $3.5MM a year plus gate, which may be another $3? Let's round to $6MM to be conservative. In that situation, Kansas would get zero revenue and owe the Big 12 $24MM a year in damages if it left. Now assume that the Big 12, as a consequence for tortious interference of contract for inducing Kansas to leave the Big 12 (a layup case by the way), would be responsible for treble damages. In other words, the Big 10 and Kansas would have to pay the Big 12 $100 million a year, and not get the rights to any Kansas home games for the BTN in order to get Kansas in the league.

That is the Big 12's opening position based on the contract. So will the "GOR's don't matter" crowd walk me through how to beat a GOR.

edit: for those that think it is easy to walk out on a media sale, just watch a few reruns of "Behind the Music". It won't take long to find some musician who thought they could walk out on their contract for some number of future albums, and then proceeded to light their music career on fire fighting it out and losing in court. Boston and George Michael are two that jump to mind. George Michael managed to recover and still does well on tour. The members of Boston play theme parks. Billy Joel managed to get out of a bad contract when a record exec threatened to break a man's legs. So there is that strategy.
 

nelsonmuntz

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I only went to a Top 25ish law school and a Top 20ish (though admittedly it was ranked much worse back then -- not even #1 in NEngland) state public univ for undergrad, so now I finally understand why I couldn't crack $400 per hour prior to leaving private practice.

Mystery solved!! Thanks Nelson!

And I bet even someone like you that was "modestly" paid at $400 an hour would not be so stupid as to have your client sign a GOR that someone could just get up and walk out on.

Edit: The core assumption anyone has to make to assume that a GOR can be beat is that everyone involved in drafting the GOR's are total freaking idiots, because without that assumption, there is no reason to believe GOR's can be beat.
 

SubbaBub

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And I bet even someone like you that was "modestly" paid at $400 an hour would not be so stupid as to have your client sign a GOR that someone could just get up and walk out on.

Edit: The core assumption anyone has to make to assume that a GOR can be beat is that everyone involved in drafting the GOR's are total freaking idiots, because without that assumption, there is no reason to believe GOR's can be beat.

If we can all agree that the GOR can be beat only by briefcases full of cash, then can we stop talking about it?

Yes, a judge will uphold the contract provisions, but it will not hold a team from leaving if the ransom is paid.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
 
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If we can all agree that the GOR can be beat only by briefcases full of cash, then can we stop talking about it?

Yes, a judge will uphold the contract provisions, but it will not hold a team from leaving if the ransom is paid.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2


Agreed. GORs can be beaten by briefcases full of cash. They could also be beaten by any outs in the contract. Since we don't know if there are any outs or what they are, we can only assume the cash option for now.
 
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[quote="nelsonmuntz, post: 655146, member: 833"

Edit: The core assumption anyone has to make to assume that a GOR can be beat is that everyone involved in drafting the GOR's are total freaking idiots, because without that assumption, there is no reason to believe GOR's can be beat.[/quote]

Everything that can be said about the enforceability of GORs, without at the very least seeing the contracts, has been said. But Nelson's statement above is 1000% wrong. I, and other good lawyers, put clauses in contracts all the time that may or may not be enforceable, but where the calculation is made that the best way to deal with the situation is to put something in where the uncertainty may scare the other side even if your side has uncertainty as well. That's just part of how things get done.
 
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