Delany on East Coast pre-expansion push: espn

[kyleslamb]

Cincinnati actually puts up some pretty good numbers on the research front. It's a moot point though since tOSU will never let them in.

No it's a moot point because none of the conference wants Cincinnati, which was my point the first time.

Yeah, they're decent with research, but fairly or unfairly, they're perceived as a commuter school (which the Big Ten doesn't want) and they're in the existing footprint (which the Big Ten doesn't want). They're not even remotely a candidate so what Ohio State would or wouldn't want is irrelevant.

As I said, if the league were going to consider someone in the footprint, it would at least be someone like Pitt who is top-10 in total research expenditures. Cincinnati puts up decent numbers, but they ranked 14 out of 15 schools in the Big Ten in R&D in 2012. So if the league is going consider someone already in the footprint, it's going to be someone that a) better than what they have academically and/or b) better than what they have athletically.

I don't know how else to say this, but flatly, the Big Ten doesn't even remotely consider Cincinnati a candidate. They were not even included in the Big Ten's research of 20-25 possible candidates back in 2010 when they hired a firm to determine value.

 

[Adios]

I don't think the Ivy League would even care about that. They're not looking at themselves as being 'regional' entities.

Oh, and for the record, the Midwest as a whole is not declining. It's growing just like every other region in the country. The growth just isn't as rapid right now as the South or other areas.

The "growth" in the Midwest is going to be based on natural resources. Farming, mining, etc, and whatever else they can conjure up. CT and NJ used to have the worst cities in the country. Not anymore.

I know the Ivies are not regional. But the B1G is.

 

[kingdobbs]

There's enough room in both Hockey and Lax to accomodate more members - it just means that they'll need to have fewer OOC games or lose the second home-home games for hockey.

Not that I think this discussion will actually go anywhere - but scheduling concerns around Olympic sports won't be a factor

The point being...those are valuable games.

Michigan v. Minnesota is WAY more valuable to the BTN than Minnesota vs. Brown or Ohio State vs. Dartmouth.

 

[woomba]

The point being...those are valuable games.

Michigan v. Minnesota is WAY more valuable to the BTN than Minnesota vs. Brown or Ohio State vs. Dartmouth.

Michigan v. Minnesota is valuable, but the marginal benefits of playing 4x a season instead of 2x is small. The games won't go away entirely and meeting less often may actually improve the value of the remaining games.

The potential gains could outweigh the negatives...the bigger question would be the scope of the deal and what each side would get out of it. I'm still not sure how each side would benefit from the deal.

 

[Ldandy]

There is something intriguing to me about Cornell as a potential addition. Their dual status as a public/private as well as being the Land Grant University of the State of NY makes them stand out in The Ivy as something different. Academically they are probably more of a peer to NW or JH than they are to Harvard, Princeton or Yale.

While people down play it here, wrestling is HUGE in The B1G. Cornell would be a great addition and a natural rival for PSU

Hockey is obviously very important to Delany's future TV vision, and The Big Red would add another quality program and expand the conference from 6 members.

Finally Lacrosse is being groomed for the BTN, and they would be at the top with UMD and JH.

Another interesting outcome of a Cornell membership would be that CT suddenly becomes a contiguous state.

 

[UConnDan97]

There is something intriguing to me about Cornell as a potential addition. Their dual status as a public/private as well as being the Land Grant University of the State of NY makes them stand out in The Ivy as something different.

Uggh.

Will people please stop with the "Cornell to the B1G" craziness, please? Let's assume for a millisecond that the B1G had any desire to add Cornell, which they don't. Cornell would have zero desire to join the B1G. Literally zero. This is a school whose entire identity is built upon being an Ivy League school. Separating itself from Yale, Harvard, Columbia, and Princeton is essentially akin to saying, "We're not the absolute cream of the crop anymore."

Cornell is a school that has nearly a 6 billion dollar endowment (which means they couldn't give a about the B1G contract money); the vast majority of it being earned through donors who like the idea that they are "Ivy":

http://cornellsun.com/blog/2013/10/30/cornell-endowment-returns-grow-11-4-percent/

So please....PLEASE....for the love of Uyi Osunde, can we cut it out with the fantasy that is Cornell to the B1G...

 

[Rocktheworld]

Finally Lacrosse is being groomed for the BTN, and they would be at the top with UMD and JH.

Pfft

ND, UVA, Cuse, Duke, UNC > Cornell, MD and JH.

 

[kyleslamb]

The "growth" in the Midwest is going to be based on natural resources. Farming, mining, etc, and whatever else they can conjure up. CT and NJ used to have the worst cities in the country. Not anymore.

I know the Ivies are not regional. But the B1G is.

Every "league" is regional. The ACC is regional. The Big 12 is regional. The SEC is regional. They're all "regional." It doesn't mean a school with a national name is going to be suddenly degraded by being in a "regional" league.

I also don't understand your point about growth based on natural resources. You do realize that over the course of time, almost every major city/port/area has grown based on resources, right? New York City got to be big because of its access to the harbor; St. Louis because its access to the river; the Middle East got to be wealthy because of its access to oil; need I continue? Resources are a big reason for almost every area's growth, historically.

 

[whaler11]

Uggh.

Will people please stop with the "Cornell to the B1G" craziness, please? Let's assume for a millisecond that the B1G had any desire to add Cornell, which they don't. Cornell would have zero desire to join the B1G. Literally zero. This is a school whose entire identity is built upon being an Ivy League school. Separating itself from Yale, Harvard, Columbia, and Princeton is essentially akin to saying, "We're not the absolute cream of the crop anymore."

Cornell is a school that has nearly a 6 billion dollar endowment (which means they couldn't give a about the B1G contract money); the vast majority of it being earned through donors who like the idea that they are "Ivy":

http://cornellsun.com/blog/2013/10/30/cornell-endowment-returns-grow-11-4-percent/

So please....PLEASE....for the love of Uyi Osunde, can we cut it out with the fantasy that is Cornell to the B1G...

Something something something blah blah blah Uyi Osunde (like) something.

As much as I love Osunde, those interlocking UC helmets are only about 70000000x better than the current helmet. How about white helmet with the UC in blue?

I like the UC way more than the block C.

 

[whaler11]

Uggh.

Will people please stop with the "Cornell to the B1G" craziness, please? Let's assume for a millisecond that the B1G had any desire to add Cornell, which they don't. Cornell would have zero desire to join the B1G. Literally zero. This is a school whose entire identity is built upon being an Ivy League school. Separating itself from Yale, Harvard, Columbia, and Princeton is essentially akin to saying, "We're not the absolute cream of the crop anymore."

Cornell is a school that has nearly a 6 billion dollar endowment (which means they couldn't give a about the B1G contract money); the vast majority of it being earned through donors who like the idea that they are "Ivy":

http://cornellsun.com/blog/2013/10/30/cornell-endowment-returns-grow-11-4-percent/

So please....PLEASE....for the love of Uyi Osunde, can we cut it out with the fantasy that is Cornell to the B1G...

I woke up early and was browsing Twitter and overnight HFD was proposing UMass as a Big 10 partner with UConn.

It's amazing in the same day I could read something dumber than UMass to the Big 10. This Cornell nonsense may be the single dumbest rumor the internet has generated on conference realignment.

 

[noeynox]

I Liked The Interlocking U C Helmets As Well.

 

[UConnDan97]

Something something something blah blah blah Uyi Osunde (like) something.

As much as I love Osunde, those interlocking UC helmets are only about 70000000x better than the current helmet. How about white helmet with the UC in blue?

I like the UC way more than the block C.

It's funny; I first thought to myself, "I'm gonna use this 'bad ' picture of Osunde wrecking someone!" And about 3 seconds after that, I said, "Good God, that helmet looks good!" I would love for us to go back to either that or the block C. Now, queue up all of the people that are going to complain about my complaints of the new helmets...

 

[whaler11]

I know when I settle down to
watch a high level college sporting
event one of the immedate things I am concerned with understanding is if a participant is a land grant university.

Who cares what you are in 2014? What's most critical is how you were established in the 1860s.

Alabama and Michigan - - I want Kansas State and Iowa State.

 

[Stinger92860]

I was working by the WTC this week and I noticed the St Johns building on West Avenue. Could UConn open a location in NYC for MBA programs? Would that be allowed under the school charter?

 

[huskyrob1]

The Big Ten has absolutely no interest in Cincinnati. If the Big Ten were ever to relax its academic standards, it's going to do it for someone out of region who has a national profile. At least someone like Pitt is a research giant. Cincinnati is bordering on being a commuter school.

Agreed. OSU would blow up B1G headquarters if they ever added Cincinnati. For the same reasons, both OSU and Penn State would veto Pitt even being considered.

 

[Ldandy]

Pfft

ND, UVA, Cuse, Duke, UNC > Cornell, MD and JH.

Pfft. Nobody was discussing ACC Lacrosse. I'm sure you will be able to enjoy all of those great teams on that awesome new ACC Network coming soon...

 

[Rocktheworld]

You said they'd be at the top of Lacrosse, well, the ACC would still dominate.

I guess now that you weren't saying they'd be the best conference but that's kinda how you worded it.

 

[B1GALUM]

Wrestling, Hockey, and Lacrosse are all sports that could be integrated into the conference outright as associate members or be involved in a scheduling alliance. They could fill many hours of programming on The BTN and possibly other Fox Based Networks.

The question of why would the Ivies want to join forces with a Midwest Conference doesn't hold much water IMO. I don't think anyone is going to look down on a Harvard Education because their Hockey Team is suddenly playing hockey against Minnesota. If in the process these universities' ADs can put some decent coin in their coffers from the TV end, what's the harm? No one is advocating that they alter their identity, but why not make a few more dollars a year on the sports of which they are already competing at a high level?

If there is any discussion between the Big Ten and the Ivy League regarding athletics, I suspect it is limited to a scheduling alliance: Big Ten-Ivy League Hockey Challenge and/or Big Ten- Ivy League Lacrosse Challenge similar to the forthcoming Big Ten-Big East Gavitt Tipoff Games or ACC-Big Ten Challenge. It gives the BTN potential programming as you mentioned and it allows Delany to claim additional "presence" for the Big Ten in the East.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I sure hope you're right B1G because that wouldn't be nearly as huge an announcement as has been alluded to in the next what is it, 40 days now?

 

[B1GALUM]

I sure hope you're right B1G because that wouldn't be nearly as huge an announcement as has been alluded to in the next what is it, 40 days now?

Agreed. Although, I am still not quite sure what to make of that tweet from Deinhart. I read it and think - hope - Big Ten expansion announcement; however, Delany may have a different idea on what constitutes "Big things brewing for league out east".

 

[Ldandy]

I know when I settle down to
watch a high level college sporting
event one of the immedate things I am concerned with understanding is if a participant is a land grant university.

Who cares what you are in 2014? What's most critical is how you were established in the 1860s.

Alabama and Michigan - - I want Kansas State and Iowa State.

I actually agree with you, but the differnce is that you and I most likely aren't bowtie wearing academic wonks like the majority of B1G University Presidents and decision makers appear to be. Remember these are the same people that voted to accept Nebraska because they knew it would make them more money, and immediately turned around and voted to strip their AAU Membership.

While you or I can seperate the idea of an athletic conference from an academic consortium, I'm not as confident that the movers and shakers of the B1G can. They view it as one in the same. IMO as long as you are a legitimate Div 1 university that follows the same basic policies for governing athletics as my school does, then I don't mind if my team competes against yours in football or women's soccer. The only time I have an issue with academics governing athletics, is when you put out the idea that you want elite academic entities only as a reason to deny a school membership in the past, than do a complete 180 when circunstances dictate that you should.

While I don't believe anything that MH*** , Tuxedo Yoda, or the Doosh of WV ever spout off about, the idea of Cornell as an associate member is at least interesting because it satisfys the academics of the conference while concurrently knocking out the continguous arguement against UConn. The B1G would grow their hockey league by adding these two and pump a good bit of money into Cornell's AD that they are likely not seeing in the ECAC. Sure Cornell is well off, but the money to fund athletics has to come from somewhere. Instead of taking it out of their general fund, or soliciting donations from alums, that funding can now be directed to academics. All of this is moot, as just like you I don't believe it will ever happen. Its still interesting to think about.

 

[Adios]

Every "league" is regional. The ACC is regional. The Big 12 is regional. The SEC is regional. They're all "regional." It doesn't mean a school with a national name is going to be suddenly degraded by being in a "regional" league.

I also don't understand your point about growth based on natural resources. You do realize that over the course of time, almost every major city/port/area has grown based on resources, right? New York City got to be big because of its access to the harbor; St. Louis because its access to the river; the Middle East got to be wealthy because of its access to oil; need I continue? Resources are a big reason for almost every area's growth, historically.

I am referring to the Midwest's industrial past. It is reinventing itself (or merely emphasizing other fields they were already in). I know all societies are founded on the presence of resources.

 

[Skiblets]

I could see the BTN showing Ivy football rebroadcasts on Sundays and throughout the week. Minimal cost for rights , adds content and targets a richer demographic.

 

[Ldandy]

You said they'd be at the top of Lacrosse, well, the ACC would still dominate.

I guess now that you weren't saying they'd be the best conference but that's kinda how you worded it.

Except that isn't how I worded it. Its called context. If you weren't so fast to pound your chest about ACC Lacrosse, you might have actually understood what you read. If someone writes about Texas joining the B1G, and remarks their joining would see them at the the top, does it mean that (A) they are referring to the B1G now being superior to the SEC, or that (B) Texas would be among the top teams in the conference? If the rest of the post was about Texas joining The B1G and the effect it would have on the conference I'd go with B.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Lmao pound my chest