Colin Cowherd and Jason Whitlock

[HuskyHawk]

Johnson County is exactly what I am talking about.

Nobody was wearing the kit in the '90s. I was just making a crack about how another country's player is more popular. Who knows, maybe that is a good thing.

Oh, it's the same here. You see Revs jerseys at Rev's games, and had they kept Jones, you might see more (and there were definitely some for Dempsey in his youth). But you definitely see Messi, Ronaldo, and random jerseys from Man U, Liverpool, etc.

Ultimately, I think folks consider MLS to be like AAA baseball. I may go to a PawSox game because it's cheap and fun, and easier than going to a Boston Red Sox game, but I buy Boston Red Sox hats and shirts. I think MLS tried to change this by bringing in aging international stars, but it doesn't really work.

 

[ZooCougar]

Oh, it's the same here. You see Revs jerseys at Rev's games, and had they kept Jones, you might see more (and there were definitely some for Dempsey in his youth). But you definitely see Messi, Ronaldo, and random jerseys from Man U, Liverpool, etc.

Ultimately, I think folks consider MLS to be like AAA baseball. I may go to a PawSox game because it's cheap and fun, and easier than going to a Boston Red Sox game, but I buy Boston Red Sox hats and shirts. I think MLS tried to change this by bringing in aging international stars, but it doesn't really work.

That's because it is like AAA baseball and probable lower. It's still fun to go watch however, and I have seen some good matches.

MLS is another big part of the problem. Too much parity has created 20 mediocre teams.

 

[meyers7]

Most of the competitive academies that I know around my area are starting (at U11) to tell kids they need to drop all other sports, and they don't allow the kids to play for their schools (middle school or high school).

It's not the academies, it's the national Academy system rule. If the academy is playing in the Academy leagues, the kids can't play for their school. This just changes in the last couple of years.

We lost one kid to the academies. He played for Varsity his FR year, but got picked up by Oakwood Academy in CT. Still plays pick up with the kids during the summer and shows up and watches practice during the fall, but can't play (or practice) with us.

 

[John]

It's not the academies, it's the national Academy system rule. If the academy is playing in the Academy leagues, the kids can't play for their school. This just changes in the last couple of years.

We lost one kid to the academies. He played for Varsity his FR year, but got picked up by Oakwood Academy in CT. Still plays pick up with the kids during the summer and shows up and watches practice during the fall, but can't play (or practice) with us.

pretty soon the girls DAP will start, it'll be interesting to see how many of the ultra-talented girls will actually give up HS, especially theat Oakwood/Glastonbury relationship.

 

[Kgun7]

So I'll take the bad of Jurgen with the good. If any of us were told befor the Copa that we'd make it to the Semis and get knocked out by Argentina then we would have taken it.

Couldn't agree more!! We are 26 years removed from a team that miraculously qualified for a World Cup we had no business making. I'd call that progress ...

 

[Kgun7]

That's because it is like AAA baseball and probable lower. It's still fun to go watch however, and I have seen some good matches.

MLS is another big part of the problem. Too much parity has created 20 mediocre teams.

Too much parity ... maybe ... but I'd take that over being a La Liga fan any day!

 

[Jaker]

Countries that have a culture of soccer will always field the top teams. The US is trying to build a culture while competing with many other sports.

 

[progrocks]

Those other countries have financial incentives in developing players because they financially benefit if they become huge. There is no incentive structure in the USA for that. The academies get nothing for players who get to MLS or even sold to the EPL.

MLS talks big but acts small. They can not help themselves. Last years labor negotiation the owners just have to squeeze the players cause that is what one does in labor negotiations. But that also prevents the money needed to real growth to happen.

MLS also needs to stop paying above market prices for american "stars". It is better for us to make them make their money overseas. USSoccer and MLS really do have competing interests and and the US soccer media is so embedded with MLS. They really do hate Klinnsman.

 

[ZooCougar]

Too much parity ... maybe ... but I'd take that over being a La Liga fan any day!

The more I learn about MLS, the less I like it.

If rather have a version of La Liga in America at this point.

In MLS there is no depth. Your best 11 are decent, but the backups are USL/NCAA quality. The difference between a good team and a bad team is often one injury. Teams have very little capacity to build a solid squad that can compete in multiple competitions.

It really detracts from the enjoyment in my opinion.

 

[ZooCougar]

Those other countries have financial incentives in developing players because they financially benefit if they become huge. There is no incentive structure in the USA for that. The academies get nothing for players who get to MLS or even sold to the EPL.

MLS talks big but acts small. They can not help themselves. Last years labor negotiation the owners just have to squeeze the players cause that is what one does in labor negotiations. But that also prevents the money needed to real growth to happen.

MLS also needs to stop paying above market prices for american "stars". It is better for us to make them make their money overseas. USSoccer and MLS really do have competing interests and and the US soccer media is so embedded with MLS. They really do hate Klinnsman.

Exactly. Garber talks a big game but it's really just eyewash.

 

[JSM1970]

The more I see it the more convinced we'll never develop elite players in this country. We need players to go develop in the European academies. Those academies benefit by keeping player rights in their club.

The MLS academies can develop American players for college, MLS. American style soccer does not compete at the highest levels. American soccer focuses on athleticism and not skill. Look at Hockey, Tennis, other skill-centric sports Americans are generally not as competitive at.

It works for the women's sports where the skill isn't as pronounced. If you watched any women's WC last year, it was terrible as an actual product. Women's soccer is awful, slow, no power, can't make the kicks, crosses, zero technical skill, etc.

Nowadays? Messi

At least where I live at the moment, you see tons of kids wearing soccer kit. Go to any public place in KC and you'll see it.

I even got sucked into a Royals game last year and kids were wearing soccer jerseys all over Kaufman Stadium.

 

[whaler11]

The United States isn't competitive in hockey? Huh.

 

[rich1122]

Go to a High School where Football, Baseball and Basketball aren't where the action is. You don't find many. So all of the athletes are there.

I love soccer and have totally disengaged from Pro Sports except soccer. Not many others my age have. My son in his 30's watches almost all soccer and not much Pro Sports. We will arrive when star-athlete kids who are now 6 have been doing nothing but playing soccer.

It's happening with Soccer and Hockey slowly but surely. They may become the mainstream in 20 years.

 

[Jaker]

We will have a stretch where we always produce pretty good teams, and this current team is pretty good. But until soccer becomes part of our culture, which will never happen, we will always produce second tier teams.

 

[Padutch5]

Nailed it. It's not surprising that the mainstream guys get it. It's because they aren't stakeholders in the US soccer establishment.

Speak For Yourself (@SFY) | Twitter

In America we've taken something that should be inexpensive and uncomplicated and made it expensive and complicated.

MLS Academies are still by and large a pay to play proposition, where success is measured in the number of kids who get college scholarships. Only in America does soccer have 22 year "rookies".

Go to any major city or suburb in America. Youth soccer is a sport dominated by privileged families who can afford to travel to expensive away tournaments.

And lastly, why do we never see the MLS based US Soccer media ever criticize our players? They are treated with kid gloves. When a player fails to perform it's always because of the choice of formation or being played "out of position".

Jurgen Klinsmann isn't popular with the MLS based US media because he is critical of the status quo and they are the defenders of it.

He's not right about everything but he's more right than Don Garber, Alexi Lalas and Matt Doyle.

OK, I recognize all of the ills of America today are because of the privileged upper class but enough already. How do you explain the fact that our college D1 basketball teams are dominated by Afro Americans? There is just as much focus on traveling, maybe even more. Much of the basketball travel is actually at much greater distances.
I will agree on one thing. The emphasis of youth soccer in being like Europe is beginning to hurt the average soccer playing kid. The youth teams in any towns are sponsored by the park districts. The level of soccer used to be pretty good. Then USA soccer began to push to elite teams as feeders into the system. In prior years In most states , the better players playing travel also played in the house league. This was good for the non elite players in that they got to measure themselves against the better players. Now those travel team players are forbidden to play in the house league. The town travel teams are still relatively low cost. However, the club teams are now viewed as the feeders into the elite academies and the cost of those is significant.

 

[Padutch5]

I'm not sure that the youth structure is the problem. At least no more than other sports today. Basketball is probably even less complicated and expensive yet AAU and tournaments dominate the elite youth scene. Baseball is ridiculously expensive, time consuming, and tournament based. Our women's national program seems to be fine with the academy / tournament / college process.

Men's soccer is different, but that doesn't mean there isn't a different way to be competitive. Most of the competitive academies that I know around my area are starting (at U11) to tell kids they need to drop all other sports, and they don't allow the kids to play for their schools (middle school or high school). My son is a step below those academies (mostly because of talent and partially our choice), but some of his teammates have moved to them and I know some kids that are getting financial support from the academies.

You might also add to the above that the ridiculously short schedule allowed in CT. soccer as well as other sports is pushing youth into the club teams if they want to develop.

 

[JSM1970]

Umm, where genius? Go look. And remember there are like 10 countries that play hockey.

The United States isn't competitive in hockey? Huh.

 

[ZooCougar]

Go to a High School where Football, Baseball and Basketball aren't where the action is. You don't find many. So all of the athletes are there.

I love soccer and have totally disengaged from Pro Sports except soccer. Not many others my age have. My son in his 30's watches almost all soccer and not much Pro Sports. We will arrive when star-athlete kids who are now 6 have been doing nothing but playing soccer.

It's happening with Soccer and Hockey slowly but surely. They may become the mainstream in 20 years.

It's not just being athletic Rich. It's being athletic and being technically skilled.

Last night I watched Germany demolish Slovakia. That is what American soccer should be aiming for. Big powerful athletes with killer instincts and ridiculous skills.

Until we have a SKILL shift and a MENTALITY shift US Soccer will stay like it is no matter which athletes it attracts.

 

[ZooCougar]

OK, I recognize all of the ills of America today are because of the privileged upper class but enough already. How do you explain the fact that our college D1 basketball teams are dominated by Afro Americans? There is just as much focus on traveling, maybe even more. Much of the basketball travel is actually at much greater distances.
I will agree on one thing. The emphasis of youth soccer in being like Europe is beginning to hurt the average soccer playing kid. The youth teams in any towns are sponsored by the park districts. The level of soccer used to be pretty good. Then USA soccer began to push to elite teams as feeders into the system. In prior years In most states , the better players playing travel also played in the house league. This was good for the non elite players in that they got to measure themselves against the better players. Now those travel team players are forbidden to play in the house league. The town travel teams are still relatively low cost. However, the club teams are now viewed as the feeders into the elite academies and the cost of those is significant.

Good grief. I never said the system was racist or classist at least intentionally. It's basically systemic myopia.

The system is inefficient. And it has evolved to support a certain constituency. Does AAU basketball cost inner city families $2000 a season to play? I don't think so.

Secondly, if there was a wealth of college football and basketball talent residing in large immigrant communities around the US do you think that colleges would overlook that talent pool because they didn't play in typical suburban youth academy setups? If you don't think there are large swaths of eligible talent that get overlooked by US Soccer and MLS then you simply don't understand what is happening, or not happening.

I mean, MLS didn't even bother trying to sign Zelalem, or even Pulisic. Liga MX Clubs sign Americans every year that MLS and US Soccer don't even know about. Clubs that don't even play in America do a better job scouting in this country than our own league and Federation.

I'll go ahead and wait for your answer.

 

[UConnSwag11]

USA soccer is generic... it's a worse version of the EPL... until the US has midfielders with creativity, speed, IQ , they're going to be behind everyone... Goalies and defense are always solid and the strikers/forwards look to be improving quickly... but when you have bradley, beckerman, and jones all of the same style of players on the field at the same time always doing the same thing always playing the same style- dull, always playing square balls... klinsman can only work with what he has... the US needs to have more technical, smarter, faster players... enough of the long ball after long ball, I never see them build anything it has to do with the midfield and lack of confidence and IQ around the team...

the MLS needs to clean up the quality immediately and also get rid of the damn turf fields and non stop long balls

as for poor kids playing soccer, they have also been given a football or mainly basketball as a way to better themselves... it's slowly starting to gain traction with the poorer regions of the country. I believe the costs will come down when this soccer explosion "bubble" pops. not many kids can play soccer on dirt roads without shoes... they play basketball on the pavement and there arent many areas for inner city kids to play soccer without paying to go somewhere

 

[UConnSwag11]

It's not just being athletic Rich. It's being athletic and being technically skilled.

Last night I watched Germany demolish Slovakia. That is what American soccer should be aiming for. Big powerful athletes with killer instincts and ridiculous skills.

Until we have a SKILL shift and a MENTALITY shift US Soccer will stay like it is no matter which athletes it attracts.

I agree with the skill shift and mentality... I disagree with the big powerful athletes... Other than defensively, we dont need big powerful athletes (most of them play football or basketball), we need smart, technical, and quick player

 

[ZooCougar]

I agree with the skill shift and mentality... I disagree with the big powerful athletes... Other than defensively, we dont need big powerful athletes (most of them play football or basketball), we need smart, technical, and quick player

Well, the Germans are all that and big. Athletically they are really similar to us. Not a bad model to shoot for. Not all of them are big of course.

I think American scouts miss the boat early on with players. I would bet good money that a sickly runt like Messi would have been overlooked here.

 

[Excalibur]

OK, I recognize all of the ills of America today are because of the privileged upper class but enough already. How do you explain the fact that our college D1 basketball teams are dominated by Afro Americans? There is just as much focus on traveling, maybe even more. Much of the basketball travel is actually at much greater distances.

Asked and answered.

 

[Excalibur]

Umm, where genius? Go look. And remember there are like 10 countries that play hockey.

There is zero comparison between our competitiveness in hockey and in soccer. None. Two silver medals in four Olympics and constantly ranked in the top 5, vs. only once making the semifinals of a worldwide tournament.

 

[Husky25]

Compare US Soccer to any other sport played in any other country. Youth Soccer in the US is very technical. Dribbling between cones, make sure to use the front instep when striking, avoid banana kicks. Don't head the ball unless absolutely necessary.

In other countries, soccer is instinctual. Players are more creative on the whole because they are rarely coached.

In that vain it is similar to basketball played in this country. There are no coaches on the playgrounds of New York City, but there is plenty of "flashy" passes and dunks meant to avoid defenders. Similar to US Soccer, there are plenty of international basketball players making the safe lay up move or the text book chest pass which often times is stolen by LeBron James and flushed at the other end of the court for 2 points.

The other thing is that soccer is the sole passion in many other countries and their stars are national heroes, and this includes other 1st world countries like France and Germany. Kids look up to them and, with education being so poor in many of the great soccer playing countries, see soccer as their only way up and out. For the exceptional athlete in North America, they have more choices to which to devote their time and seeing as the North American soccer player is a relative pauper to their baseball/basketball/football/hockey brethren, chances are they would reach for the shinier ring, if given the opportunity.