Can Men Also Be Taught To Play This Game?

[BigBird]

I am currently watching the number three-ranked men's college basketball team play. They are ahead by about 30 at the moment. But as I watch and compare them with the top women's team, some things become clear.
1) Selfish play won't get you benched.
2) Since when is it a violation to pass the ball to another player if he has a better shot than you do?
3) A bad shot is any shot or pass that doesn't go in the basket.
4) Cutting off the baseline is considered optional. If you get around to it, fine. Otherwise, don't think bad thoughts about yourself because you stood and watched.
5) Stopping the ball on defense against a drive? See item #4 above.
6) If your team mate has the ball, just stand there; you won't get a touch anyway, so why bother?
7) The definition of a successful team is one that just beat a worse team.

 

[HuskyNan]

Meanwhile, the UConn men look like a new team today. Tough, in-your-face defense leading to lots of steals and rushed shots by the opponent. Huskies have a 17 point halftime lead.

The game is on the CBS Sports Network.

 

[BigBird]

Meanwhile, the UConn men look like a new team today. Tough, in-your-face defense leading to lots of steals and rushed shots by the opponent. Huskies have a 17 point halftime lead.

Good to hear that. Unfortunately, if the UConn men follow form, they will look "different" in their next outing. The Iowa team I was watching has a very good coach. Yet, few of their starters could play to Geno's standards. Let's face it. Selfish play and stat-stuffing are tolerated (if not appreciated) in the men's game. I have never seen so many bad shots taken by two teams.

 

[Kaizen]

2:01 to go, UConn 62 UCF 39, go UConn....

 

[pinotbear]

I am currently watching the number three-ranked men's college basketball team play. They are ahead by about 30 at the moment. But as I watch and compare them with the top women's team, some things become clear.
1) Selfish play won't get you benched.
2) Since when is it a violation to pass the ball to another player if he has a better shot than you do?
3) A bad shot is any shot or pass that doesn't go in the basket.
4) Cutting off the baseline is considered optional. If you get around to it, fine. Otherwise, don't think bad thoughts about yourself because you stood and watched.
5) Stopping the ball on defense against a drive? See item #4 above.
6) If your team mate has the ball, just stand there; you won't get a touch anyway, so why bother?
7) The definition of a successful team is one that just beat a worse team.

By reputation, anyway, the older you are, the more Jewish you are, and the closer to NY/Philly you live, the more likely it is you play an uncompromising, below-the-rim team game of BB. Billy Crystal and 4 of his buddies ought to kick butt.

 

[UcMiami]

2) Since when is it a violation to pass the ball to another player if he has a better shot than you do?

Since the NBA started giving multimillion dollar contracts to college dropouts who have gaudy per game scoring averages, and ignoring most players who can make a pretty pass, but don't score in the 20s.

 

[BigBird]

Since the NBA started giving multimillion dollar contracts to college dropouts who have gaudy per game scoring averages, and ignoring most players who can make a pretty pass, but don't score in the 20s.

I think you're on to something there, Miami. It just blows my mind watching a three on one fast break opportunity (with a trailing 4th player, no less), but the guard keeps the ball, misses the shot, and gets called for the charge. Geno would bench that player; that's just my guess.

 

[huskyd]

By reputation, anyway, the older you are, the more Jewish you are, and the closer to NY/Philly you live, the more likely it is you play an uncompromising, below-the-rim team game of BB. Billy Crystal and 4 of his buddies ought to kick butt.

"Yeshiva's Men's Basketball team is an annual playoff contender" (from Wikipedia)

 

[alexrgct]

The men's squad that harkens to Uconn WCBB is the Golden State Warriors. They can be taught the game in style. Just watch Draymond "Kelly Faris" Green, Harrison Barnes, Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and that massive bench of role players.

Porzingis on the Knicks also plays the game the right way. But the Warriors take the right shots, make the right cuts, use the bench the right way, and play as a team like the great passing reflected on a Uconn WCBB team.

 

[MilfordHusky]

The men's squad that harkens to Uconn WCBB is the Golden State Warriors. They can be taught the game in style. Just watch Draymond "Kelly Faris" Green, Harrison Barnes, Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and that massive bench of role players.

Porzingis on the Knicks also plays the game the right way. But the Warriors take the right shots, make the right cuts, use the bench the right way, and play as a team like the great passing reflected on a Uconn WCBB team.

Porzingis is from Europe. Any chance he has a 17-year-old female cousin?

 

[CL82]

2) Since when is it a violation to pass the ball to another player if he has a better shot than you do?

Next time you watch a UConn men's game you might want to keep your eye on #5.

 

[bmayuc]

There are much smaller margins of error in Mens Basketball. That is why the level of efficiency that you see in Womens BB at the highest level are possible.

That is to say, they play on same court size, hoop size, and rim size. Yet, the men play with a larger ball, with much bigger/faster/stronger athletes. So, the angles to play the game are easier on the womens level.

Also, to paraphrase Geno, women are more culturally attuned to interdependence, teamwork, and collaboration. Add to that the general rule that due to physical limitations on the womens side, there isn't the same pure physical dominance as common on the womens side, it lends itself to a less physical, more fluid game of collaboration and sophistication rather than brute physical force and skill dominance.

Interesting thought experiment, tho.

 

[JordyG]

There are much smaller margins of error in Mens Basketball. That is why the level of efficiency that you see in Womens BB at the highest level are possible.

That is to say, they play on same court size, hoop size, and rim size. Yet, the men play with a larger ball, with much bigger/faster/stronger athletes. So, the angles to play the game are easier on the womens level.

Also, to paraphrase Geno, women are more culturally attuned to interdependence, teamwork, and collaboration. Add to that the general rule that due to physical limitations on the womens side, there isn't the same pure physical dominance as common on the womens side, it lends itself to a less physical, more fluid game of collaboration and sophistication rather than brute physical force and skill dominance.

Interesting thought experiment, tho.

You are mostly correct. However, the smaller ball is bouncier and harder to control. In the women's game what are contested layups are dunks in the men's game. Nothing of what you said explains why men shoot worse from the perimeter and have virtually no mid-range game. Men are more culturally attuned to a social pecking order. However it seems to me real leadership in the men's game is lacking.

 

[DaddyChoc]

people see what they want to see... dont like it, dont watch it!

after 3 - 5 possessions you would know if you're going to stay tuned in or grab the remote control and turn to the Lifetime Network

 

[Checkmate]

if you think college basketball is bad, try watching the NBA - I cannot watch more than 5 minutes

defensive 3 seconds, traveling is never enforce, no structured offense, bogus fouls to protect stars, etc.

 

[HuskyNan]

people see what they want to see... dont like it, dont watch it!

after 3 - 5 possessions you would know if you're going to stay tuned in or grab the remote control and turn to the Lifetime Network

Wow.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Wow.

thats normally "Monday Night Football" talk on Facebook... I rather watch a Lifetime Movie (World Premiere) than watch the Cowboys or Giants play

 

[magic]

The men's squad that harkens to Uconn WCBB is the Golden State Warriors. They can be taught the game in style. Just watch Draymond "Kelly Faris" Green, Harrison Barnes, Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and that massive bench of role players.

Porzingis on the Knicks also plays the game the right way. But the Warriors take the right shots, make the right cuts, use the bench the right way, and play as a team like the great passing reflected on a Uconn WCBB team.

I agree. Golden State .

 

[meyers7]

You are mostly correct. However, the smaller ball is bouncier and harder to control. In the women's game what are contested layups are dunks in the men's game. Nothing of what you said explains why men shoot worse from the perimeter and have virtually no mid-range game. Men are more culturally attuned to a social pecking order. However it seems to me real leadership in the men's game is lacking.

Ummm, NCAA men have 4 players shooting 50% or greater from 3 pt land. NCAA women have 1. At 45% or better women have 8 players, the men have 21.

If you go by teams the men have 16 teams shooting 40% or better, the women have 4.

So men don't actually shoot worse from the perimeter, they actually shoot much better.

 

[Roundball fan]

Men have out grown the size of the court. It would never happen but college and the pro's should think about having only 4 players. More space to maneuver to open up the floor for their athletic abilities and size. I also feel it would make for a more passing oriented game also. Watching major college basketball is hard because they are to big and fast, a great pass in the women's game 50 percent of the time would be picked off in the men's game. Crazy idea right.

 

[bmayuc]

You are mostly correct. However, the smaller ball is bouncier and harder to control. In the women's game what are contested layups are dunks in the men's game. Nothing of what you said explains why men shoot worse from the perimeter and have virtually no mid-range game. Men are more culturally attuned to a social pecking order. However it seems to me real leadership in the men's game is lacking.

Ok, let me address those two.

First of all, the ball is not "bouncier" or "harder to control". Its just not. Inflated to same levels, and the size difference is actually correlative to hand size. So, what you are left with is a smaller ball into a standard rim. This equals more room for error. Logical. The Women can shoot marginally further left/right/front/back and still make a basket.

Second, yes (some) men can dunk, but mens players can also get WAYYYYYYY above the rim to contest dunks. This is, then, consistent with the fact that margins of error for Men are much smaller than they are for women. Even the easiest finish (dunk) is challenged nearly every time. Did you know as a field goal %, only about 90% of dunks are completed? This ability of men, therefore, doesn't disprove my notion of smaller windows bur bunishes it. Consider a layup. How many times have you seen an open layup(or contested one) pinned on the backboard. What that player is doing is literally removing what would other wise be a scoring angle.

Men have no midrange game because more men have the ability to shoot 3's, it is a more efficient shot, and the alternative is driving to the rim for a layup/foul/dunk, which is ALSO more efficient than a mid-range shot. Men don't shoot from midrange because that is the way efficiency dictates that the game evolve. Its always been a low-percentage shot, but the game is now changing with that understanding more solidly stuck in peoples minds.

 

[CocoHusky]

I had this explained to me along time ago. Men's basketball not better or worse than women's basketball just different. The consumer has got to understand this in the same way that you don't buy the same apples to snack on that you would use to bake a pie. Same applies to UCONN WCBB it is a different product than the rest of WCBB. After you watch UCONN play and then you are forced to watch say Alabama you are watching two completely different products.

 

[bmayuc]

Men have out grown the size of the court. It would never happen but college and the pro's should think about having only 4 players. More space to maneuver to open up the floor for their athletic abilities and size. I also feel it would make for a more passing oriented game also. Watching major college basketball is hard because they are to big and fast, a great pass in the women's game 50 percent of the time would be picked off in the men's game. Crazy idea right.

This is folly. You are looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The mens game is not basketball as it was played in the 90s, but basketball in the 90s wasn't the same as played in the 70s, which wasn't the same as basketball played in the 50's. The beauty of the game is that it is an evolutionary game where each generation builds off the innovations and concepts of the generation before.

Shooting skill has never been higher or spread to as many players on the court. The innovations in the NBA are driving a more skillful, beautiful game. The problem with Mens College BBall is that it has been reticent to adopt rule changes to follow the NBA(and Womens CBB) lead to modernize the game. They have started this year, and the games are much more watchable, but it will take several years.

Compare this to College Football, where the innovation in the sport, the incubator for new rules/strategies/tactics is at the college level. new offenses, new defenses, etc that are proven out(or disproven) and then matriculate to the more mature pro game.

That is what College BBall should strive for, to work in that model.

 

[CocoHusky]

Ok, let me address those two.

First of all, the ball is not "bouncier" or "harder to control". Its just not. Inflated to same levels, and the size difference is actually correlative to hand size. So, what you are left with is a smaller ball into a standard rim. This equals more room for error. Logical. The Women can shoot marginally further left/right/front/back and still make a basket.

Second, yes (some) men can dunk, but mens players can also get WAYYYYYYY above the rim to contest dunks. This is, then, consistent with the fact that margins of error for Men are much smaller than they are for women. Even the easiest finish (dunk) is challenged nearly every time. Did you know as a field goal %, only about 90% of dunks are completed? This ability of men, therefore, doesn't disprove my notion of smaller windows bur bunishes it. Consider a layup. How many times have you seen an open layup(or contested one) pinned on the backboard. What that player is doing is literally removing what would other wise be a scoring angle.

Men have no midrange game because more men have the ability to shoot 3's, it is a more efficient shot, and the alternative is driving to the rim for a layup/foul/dunk, which is ALSO more efficient than a mid-range shot. Men don't shoot from midrange because that is the way efficiency dictates that the game evolve. Its always been a low-percentage shot, but the game is now changing with that understanding more solidly stuck in peoples minds.

Good analysis but I disagree with your point that "the size difference is actually correlative to hand size". For the balls to be correlative to hand size you would need a smaller women's ball or a bigger men's ball. Almost every player on Men DI team can palm a basketball. DI women's team on average have about 2 players on each team that can actually palm a basketball.

 

[bmayuc]

Good analysis but I disagree with your point that "the size difference is actually correlative to hand size". For the balls to be correlative to hand size you would need a smaller women's ball or a bigger men's ball. Almost every player on Men DI team can palm a basketball. DI women's team on average have about 2 players on each team that can actually palm a basketball.

I didn't mean precisely scaled, obviously. Simply Womens hands are smaller, and they use a smaller ball. Mens larger, use a standard ball.