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WestHartHusk

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You're right, but I'm not saying they ever had any intention of killing Walt - their intention was to have Walt cook for them one last time. They were willing to let Walt walk away with his $11 million, but they could have just as easily made Walt cook one more time and then let him walk away with his $11 million.


Still the same problem with Todd though. The deal with Walt was: 1) kill Jesse; 2) Walt cooks. Without killing Jesse they didn't have a deal. I think this gives them more credit for honoring their word than reality would suggest, but I guess it is an 'honor amongst thieves' thing.
 
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I'm assuming that the answer is probably "because they just found 70 million dollars" - but why weren't the Nazis planning to take Walt hostage to guarantee that he cooks for them? Had Walter not told them Jesse was under the car, they would have let both get away?

It's probably best not to keep a genius psychopath in your employ.

Gus Fring found this out the hard way. Also, remember that Fring wanted Walt gone if at all possible for precisely this reason. Walt was the problem that would never go away. The chief bootjack probably realizes this.
 
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I think the reason they weren't worried about Jesse is that they didn't really care to kill him. Remember, when they came out for Walt it wasn't because they were following Walt's orders to kill him anymore, or to save Walt, per se, but because the exact latitude / longitude coordinates Walt provided tipped them off that something important was hidden in the desert. So when they found that 'something' they didn't need to kill Jesse, and probably just assumed Walt's bloodlust had passed for the time being (and Jesse doesn't really know anything about them).

The reason Walt lived, I think, is Todd. The uncle said that there would be a problem with Todd if they took all of Walt's money, so I would assume that there would be an even bigger problem if they killed him (but I don't know what 'problem' looks like). I am still unclear about what the power structure is within that family, but certainly Todd wields some influence as evidenced by the fact that he was able to keep Jesse alive.

Remember the scene in the diner when Todd was describing the heist? These guys actually like Walt.
 
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You're right, but I'm not saying they ever had any intention of killing Walt - their intention was to have Walt cook for them one last time. They were willing to let Walt walk away with his $11 million, but they could have just as easily made Walt cook one more time and then let him walk away with his $11 million.

For that matter, not sure I buy that they are going to stay in the meth cooking business. Why do Nazis need more than $70 million? Are they buying a summer home in Cannes? Donating to the Metropolitan Opera?
 
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For that matter, not sure I buy that they are going to stay in the meth cooking business. Why do Nazis need more than $70 million? Are they buying a summer home in Cannes? Donating to the Metropolitan Opera?

Jesse's current situation would indicate that they are definitely staying in the meth cooking business, no?
 
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Jesse's current situation would indicate that they are definitely staying in the meth cooking business, no?

Yes. A big risk. But then again, what else do they have to do with their lives? Burn crosses?
 
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Jesse's current situation would indicate that they are definitely staying in the meth cooking business, no?
Todd is definitely desirous of being in the Meth cooking business due to his desire for Lydia. So he can impress Lydia and improve his cooks by using Jesse. Todd's uncle Jack could probably take (greed, Czech money) or leave (risk) the Meth business but will stay in it at Todd's wishes.

So no need to make Walt cook on two levels and third level of not wanting a pissed off criminal mastermind in their midst also makes sense. Basically Jack told Walt to get out of Dodge or else so if the Neo-Meth-Nazis see Walt again Walt goes the way of Gomie & Hank.

I agree that the Neo-Meth-Nazis have to come for confession tapes from Marie, but its possible they leave Skylar alone as hurting her could allow Walt to sing and he's really the only one that has the goods on them.

That's my one quibble with last week's episode is much like Jack couldn't let Hank live he really couldn't let Walt live either. Once Walt is disappeared he can drop a dime and tattle on the Nazis out of spite. If Skylar & Co. had left with him, Walt almost definitely does that.

Minor quibble is the Neo Nazis might have reasonably worried that someone else (Skylar or Hank's phone call) knew where they were so why not dig a new hole without publicized GPS coordinates to bury Hank & Gomie. Point is I guess the Neo-Meth-Nazis have made enough mistakes already and hopefully are going to die.
 

cohenzone

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I'm not going to watch the last episode. No way it matches the scenarios in this thread. If Walt, and Jesse, for that matter, aren't the two best TV drama characters ever, they certainly are no worse than tied for first.
I'm still not quite sold on the Saul spin-off. It will be interesting to see if a compelling series can be built around him.
 
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Todd's respect and even adherence to Walt is interesting, he's always wanted to impress him. Gilligan forshadowed the stark difference between Todd and Jesse during the heist episodes... All that crying from jesse. One thing I'm unclear on is the progression of WW's cancer, but I guess that's a big topic next week.
 
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Todd's respect and even adherence to Walt is interesting, he's always wanted to impress him. Gilligan forshadowed the stark difference between Todd and Jesse during the heist episodes... All that crying from jesse. One thing I'm unclear on is the progression of WW's cancer, but I guess that's a big topic next week.
Unfortunately that's part of all the bad that's happening to Jesse, he's a better character and more interesting to watch. But certainly they've set up Todd's fetish behavior (saving the spider, Lydia crush) to some outcome as BBad never wastes a scene.

Its too bad that Todd and his uncles aren't more interesting though. Gus Fring was just a phenomenal character, Mike Ehmentrout maybe even better and the Mexican henchman brothers were perfectly horrifying. Walt & Hank already took out the A teams and these characters that filled the void (Todd < Mike, Uncle Jack < Brothers, Lydia < Gus) are C's in comparison, just more one dimensional (except maybe Lydia, but still she is no Gus Fring).

I don't think Walt's cancer matters. Narratively it was only a disposable reason for him to rebel against the world and his own choices. Walt is alive 6 months ish from Ozzymandias so its unlikely that the cancer kills him. In the end Walt either dies (95%) or is incarcerated (4.9%) or exists in some living hell .1%. They aren't going to show the cancer slowly eat away at him as he's already eaten away at 99.9% of his humanity by his own actions.
 
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You're right, but I'm not saying they ever had any intention of killing Walt - their intention was to have Walt cook for them one last time. They were willing to let Walt walk away with his $11 million, but they could have just as easily made Walt cook one more time and then let him walk away with his $11 million.



Very small nitpick: If I recall correctly there were 6 barrels with approximately $80 million in them, in which case Walt's one barrel would contain ~$13.33 million. (I'm assuming all the barrels had roughly the same amount of cash in them.) I know Nazi #2 guessed "$10 or $11 million," but still.
 

WestHartHusk

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Very small nitpick: If I recall correctly there were 6 barrels with approximately $80 million in them, in which case Walt's one barrel would contain ~$13.33 million. (I'm assuming all the barrels had roughly the same amount of cash in them.) I know Nazi #2 guessed "$10 or $11 million," but still.


I thought there were 7 barrels, no?
 
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Todd is definitely desirous of being in the Meth cooking business due to his desire for Lydia. So he can impress Lydia and improve his cooks by using Jesse. Todd's uncle Jack could probably take (greed, Czech money) or leave (risk) the Meth business but will stay in it at Todd's wishes.

So no need to make Walt cook on two levels and third level of not wanting a pissed off criminal mastermind in their midst also makes sense. Basically Jack told Walt to get out of Dodge or else so if the Neo-Meth-Nazis see Walt again Walt goes the way of Gomie & Hank.

I agree that the Neo-Meth-Nazis have to come for confession tapes from Marie, but its possible they leave Skylar alone as hurting her could allow Walt to sing and he's really the only one that has the goods on them.

That's my one quibble with last week's episode is much like Jack couldn't let Hank live he really couldn't let Walt live either. Once Walt is disappeared he can drop a dime and tattle on the Nazis out of spite. If Skylar & Co. had left with him, Walt almost definitely does that.

Minor quibble is the Neo Nazis might have reasonably worried that someone else (Skylar or Hank's phone call) knew where they were so why not dig a new hole without publicized GPS coordinates to bury Hank & Gomie. Point is I guess the Neo-Meth-Nazis have made enough mistakes already and hopefully are going to die.


RE: Confession Tapes - This is a good guess, that Marie will be brought even lower and we have every reason to suspect the Nazis are coming for that tape. And now it occurs to me, that they might find another confession tape in the Schraeder household, and what will they make of the Confession of Walter White. And if the Nazis don't find it, then maybe Skylar might use it after Marie is whacked, to restore her family and bring Walt back home without fear of being arrested. If so, poor Hank('s memory)! Walt's "confession" to Skylar at the end of the episode with the cops on the line certainly opened the door for Skylar to accept him back again someday. But in any event, that false confession tape is coming back.

RE: Uncle Jack's Puzzling Decision Making - I agree completely with your quibbles and feel the same way. As insouciant as the Nazis are, no way are they dilly-dallying with 2 federal agents down and God knows what back-up coming or what the home office knows.

It was pretty sad to see Jesse, in the flashback that started the episode, jumping around in the background and playing make believe like a little kid (perhaps indulging the same interest in Cartoon superheroes that Jane would encourage not too long afterward in the narrative timeline) while Walt uttered his first "White lie" to Skylar about Bogdan in the foreground.
 
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Upstater's Caillou analogy gives me chills. I hate that little punk; and the way his whiny ways rub off on kids. I banned that show in my house. Pure crap.
 
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RE: Confession Tapes - This is a good guess, that Marie will be brought even lower and we have every reason to suspect the Nazis are coming for that tape. And now it occurs to me, that they might find another confession tape in the Schraeder household, and what will they make of the Confession of Walter White. And if the Nazis don't find it, then maybe Skylar might use it after Marie is whacked, to restore her family and bring Walt back home without fear of being arrested. If so, poor Hank('s memory)! Walt's "confession" to Skylar at the end of the episode with the cops on the line certainly opened the door for Skylar to accept him back again someday. But in any event, that false confession tape is coming back.

RE: Uncle Jack's Puzzling Decision Making - I agree completely with your quibbles and feel the same way. As insouciant as the Nazis are, no way are they dilly-dallying with 2 federal agents down and God knows what back-up coming or what the home office knows.

Interesting point about Skylar possibly clearing Walt's name or accepting him. But I think no way on the latter as Skylar wanted to blow up Heisenberg from the get-go but continually chickened out and then got sucked in deeper and deeper. I think there is no plausible way she goes back into that hell even if Walt promises he's clean. But I acknowledge you can never say never with this show and somehow they always surprise you with what's coming.

Todd really needs to visit Marie by the way because Jesse's confession specifically discussed Drew Sharp and that killing = Todd knows its on tape somewhere that he murdered Drew Sharp and with the cops crawling all over Skylar and Marie it is going to be exceptionally difficult to retrieve. I guess though with the only eyewitnesses Walt & Jesse 'gone' the ABQ cops/DA wouldn't have much of a case. Arguably enough for a search warrant though = Todd really should have gotten on that immediately after the Jesse torture.
 

FfldCntyFan

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I believe that Wharton nailed it that Walt's speech was solely to absolve (at least in the eyes of the police) Skyler.

Todd plays a huge role in Walt returning and it will be due to something severe that Todd did to someone.

My guess (by the way Jesse said "I told you where to find the tape, you got everything you need from me" that there had been enough time between Jesse giving the information and Todd bringing him to the lab for Jesse (and the audience) to believe the neo-nazis have the tape. I also think (with this no longer being necessary now that they have Walt's cash) that Uncle Jack is letting Todd continue with meth cooking as a hobby, as a show of gratitude for all of the good fortune that Todd has brought his way.
 
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Walt's orders to kill him anymore, or to save Walt, per se, but because the exact latitude / longitude coordinates Walt provided tipped them off that something important was hidden in the desert.


They showed up because they needed walt for the cook and couldnt take the chance of having him killed because they had a lot of money riding on walt cooking. When jack got there and saw what was going on he put two and two together but it was walt that told him it was money and jack was clearly surprised by that revelation.
 
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My guess (by the way Jesse said "I told you where to find the tape, you got everything you need from me" that there had been enough time between Jesse giving the information and Todd bringing him to the lab for Jesse (and the audience) to believe the neo-nazis have the tape. I also think (with this no longer being necessary now that they have Walt's cash) that Uncle Jack is letting Todd continue with meth cooking as a hobby, as a show of gratitude for all of the good fortune that Todd has brought his way.
Maybe, but they'll have to show the Schraeder house ransacked to prove that and it was VERY risky (if Jack hit Hank's place). The Neo-Meth-Nazi's didn't know the police were crawling all over WWhite's house (or that they were distracted in looking for the baby) but they'd certainly want to take exceptional care in breaking into a dead DEA agent's home. I just don't think that's happened yet.

Another aspect is the Neo-Meth-Nazis are going to know what happened at the White house as presumably its in the press (hence the future vandalism at the White house). Amber alert = press = Former chemistry teacher accused of Meth dealing. This is certainly going to give them pause about continuing to cook. Eliminating Jesse's tape becomes more vital AND finding out what Skylar, "Flynn" and Marie know of pretty big import. I think the Neo-Meth-Nazis are coming for all of them.
 

FfldCntyFan

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One thing I felt was an absolute earlier on is that Walt's return is due in part to his cancer returning and as his true identity would be discovered if he did undergo treatment, his days were numbered, giving him little to lose if he risked his life to take out someone else.

A very important loose end (and all loose ends in this series are there for a reason) is that Walt's car was abandoned and was leaking gas from where Hank and Gomey were buried (unless the nazis moved them) to where the car died.

One of Walt's immediate family will very likely become collateral damage, there is absolutely no getting around that if the show continues to form. It is also very likely that the nazis will end up getting theirs as all who warrant punishment end up getting punished in this show.

One great irony (and there have been a ton of them) is that Jesse is now a slave (cooking meth). If he could have just behaved himself when they began cooking for Gus (while being exceptionally well paid), the chain of events that ed to Walt killing Gus never would have been set in motion.
 
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One thing I felt was an absolute earlier on is that Walt's return is due in part to his cancer returning and as his true identity would be discovered if he did undergo treatment, his days were numbered, giving him little to lose if he risked his life to take out someone else.

A very important loose end (and all loose ends in this series are there for a reason) is that Walt's car was abandoned and was leaking gas from where Hank and Gomey were buried (unless the nazis moved them) to where the car died.

One of Walt's immediate family will very likely become collateral damage, there is absolutely no getting around that if the show continues to form. It is also very likely that the nazis will end up getting theirs as all who warrant punishment end up getting punished in this show.

One great irony (and there have been a ton of them) is that Jesse is now a slave (cooking meth). If he could have just behaved himself when they began cooking for Gus (while being exceptionally well paid), the chain of events that ed to Walt killing Gus never would have been set in motion.
They showed Walt driving the car on the road, so he could have gotten pretty far from To'haiijilah. Its possible they could do a cell phone trace and they didn't show any cleanup beyond removing the truck so police discovery on their own is possible and the coordinates make the grave ultimately discoverable. But Walt only gives those over if/when Marie+Skylar+Flynn+Holly are out of ABQ. I guess there it is kind of mutually assured destruction (Walt could simply call Todd and say don't harm my family and I won't give the police the coordinates etc..).

Interesting yes I forgot that Jesse's rebellion against the child meth dealers is what began the rift between Gus and Walt. Walt refused to allow Jesse to be killed (by Gus and saved his life vs street dealers) and then when Gus had prepped Gale to takeover for both Walt & Jesse, Walt engineered Jesse's actions. True to character that in both of Jesse's major 'fatal' moves (that one 7 ratting on Walt) his conscience and choosing right over wrong gets him in trouble with the morally bankrupt criminals. Then Walt successfully used this against Jesse with Brock. This gives me some hope that Jesse survives and maybe after 6 months of reflection Walt gets it that Jesse was acting on defensible grounds* rather than self interest = worth defending/freeing.

* grounds became even more defendable when he learned of Walt letting Jane die.

The only way for Walt to seek some redemption on his death bed is to do right by Jesse, Drew White, Jane & family & innocent victims of plane crash. Its either that or he stays evil through the end and everyone dies in a hail of bullets ala Scarface.
 

FfldCntyFan

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They showed Walt driving the car on the road, so he could have gotten pretty far from To'haiijilah. Its possible they could do a cell phone trace and they didn't show any cleanup beyond removing the truck so police discovery on their own is possible and the coordinates make the grave ultimately discoverable. But Walt only gives those over if/when Marie+Skylar+Flynn+Holly are out of ABQ. I guess there it is kind of mutually assured destruction (Walt could simply call Todd and say don't harm my family and I won't give the police the coordinates etc..).

Interesting yes I forgot that Jesse's rebellion against the child meth dealers is what began the rift between Gus and Walt. Walt refused to allow Jesse to be killed (by Gus and saved his life vs street dealers) and then when Gus had prepped Gale to takeover for both Walt & Jesse, Walt engineered Jesse's actions. True to character that in both of Jesse's major 'fatal' moves (that one 7 ratting on Walt) his conscience and choosing right over wrong gets him in trouble with the morally bankrupt criminals. Then Walt successfully used this against Jesse with Brock. This gives me some hope that Jesse survives and maybe after 6 months of reflection Walt gets it that Jesse was acting on defensible grounds* rather than self interest = worth defending/freeing.

grounds became even more defendable when he learned of Walt letting Jane die.

The only way for Walt to seek some redemption on his death bed is to do right by Jesse, Drew White, Jane & family & innocent victims of plane crash. Its either that or he stays evil through the end and everyone dies in a hail of bullets ala Scarface.

Similar to my belief that very shortly before this season ends (one, perhaps two games remaining) P will get canned, very shortly before the end of the final episode (eight to ten minutes left) Walt bites the dust. I see no way they can tie up all loose endsand let Walt live.

One thing about Walt that has led to many of his mistakes is that most of the time his thought process and actions are too cold, calculating, completely unemotional (planning the ten murders to occur over a two minute span, dealing with Jesse & Todd in a businesslike manner after Drew Sharp was killed) but on occasion he allows emotion to control him (pleading for Hank's life, informing Jesse about Jane, driving like a madman to where the money was buried, spilling the beans, while drunk, that Gayle could not have been Heisenberg) which leads to the mistakes he has made. It is almost as if it is a lesson that he cannot allow emotion to influence his actions without becoming mistake prone (in a way, the scientific method applied to life).

When I first saw the abandoned, police taped house with Heisenberg written on one of the walls my thought was that Jesse had written that. Considering his reaction when he did fully realize that what he was told about his father was true, I now think that it may have been Flynn who wrote that but it also is possible that this was a warning from the nazis. I'm curious as to who outside of the DEA, possibly local police and insiders within the drug trade know of Heisenberg. Prior to Hank's death I doubt that this would be public information. With Walt (Heisenberg) on the lamb, I can see reasons why the authorities would keep that alias secret but I can also see reasons why they would publicize it. I believe that it would be better drama if that alias is kept secret from the public throughout.

I think it is very possible that Walt is back to either free or avenge Jesse. It has to have something to do with what Walt views as immediate family and this would be limited to Skyler, Flynn, Holly, Jesse (who he had more of a father/son relationship with than Flynn) and possibly Marie.

You could well be correct about the gasoline leak. I also wonder if they can get some reasonably accurate location of Hank's final phone call to Marie. I see their finding Hank & Gomey as a very strong possibility and I also think it is possible that they match some of the bullets with those that eliminated Declan and his crew (if that didn't demonstrate how bad ass the nazis were nothing could).

The gun Walt bought (which likely could fire off hundreds of bullets at a time) has to be for the nazis. There would be no other reason for such a piece of machinery. There also will be an armageddon in the final episode that will make To'hajiilee look like an afternoon at a gun club.
 

JaYnYcE

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Jesse is the root of every conflict on this show. I've been wanting him to die for years now.
 
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Jesse is the root of every conflict on this show. I've been wanting him to die for years now.
That's typically what happens when you're one of the two main characters...

Not sure I understand the Jesse hate. He's one of the more likeable people in a show of evil characters.
 

JaYnYcE

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That's typically what happens when you're one of the two main characters...

Not sure I understand the Jesse hate. He's one of the more likeable people in a show of evil characters.

No it isn't typical for two main characters to be the root of every problem in a story...

How is he like able? He shot a guy in cold blood a few seasons ago. That's evil. I wouldn't have had a problem with what he did if he stopped acting like such a little punk b!tch. He's a rat, and a baby. If you don't wanna be a part of the life you and Walt built, take your money and get lost. Don't want the money? Burn it. Just don't freakin draw attention to yourself when you're in the business that you're in. He never thinks about the ramifications of his actions. As a fan of the show, I actually enjoy watching Jesse suffer.
 

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