Blauds: UConn/Cincy Leaning Towards C7

[UConnDan97]

LOL. Yes my opinion and the opinion of every computer model... and 99% of every other unbiased observer.

So your argument is that the computers don't actually take the game results into account - that somehow they are arriving at rankings that's aren't based on game outcomes.

Try this someday: Take the Pomeroy score projections and run them up against the Vegas lines and let me know if that model has value.

You are so far off the rails on this topic it's a bit sad. Really take the blue glasses off and look at the actual data.

Read the scorecard. No glasses necessary. Just get up close to the screen. That's the difference between predictive models and actual results. Vegas never lost a game that was already played...

 

[RS9999X]

Read the scorecard. No glasses necessary. Just get up close to the screen. That's the difference between predictive models and actual results. Vegas never lost a game that was already played...

Outliers do not make a trend. They make for the occasional upset.

 

[UConnDan97]

Outliers do not make a trend. They make for the occasional upset.

You're right. So please tell me which one of the 5 NBE wins was the outlier, and I'll remove it so that the data reflects a lead of only 4-3....

(I love how you guys are begging to give C-7 superiority, even though the data shows these are pretty similar leagues)

EDIT: I'm sure you're going to tell me that the Marquette buzzer-beater against us wasn't an outlier, and that the C-7 shouldn't remove that win on their side of the ledger as an "occasional upset", right?

 

[whaler11]

I agree. Cincy has been and I believe will continue to be a top tier basketball program.

Also, I saved everyone the trouble and I looked up the head to head matchups between the C-7 and NBE this year. Here is the score so far:

NBE 5, C7 3 (if you include Xavier, Butler, and VCU, the score becomes NBE 6, C7 5)
Here's the breakdown:
Marquette (1-1): W UConn, L Cincy
GTown (0-1): L USF
Providence: (None. I didn't count the loss to UMass because we don't know if they will be NBE. If they do, then the NBE is even further in the lead)
'Nova (1-1): W USF, L Temple
St. John's (1-0): W Cincy
Seton Hall: (None)
DePaul (0-2): L UConn, L Cincy

Xavier (1-1): W Temple, L Cincy
Butler: (None)
VCU (1-0): W Memphis

There's the scorecard so far, folks. Neither side is clearly in the lead as of yet...

LOL sure. Ignore the hundreds of games the teams have played and look at 8 random matchups to say you can't reach a conclusion.

I guess the computers were wrong that Louisville was better than UConn in football this year. The one game sample was a UConn win - ignore the 23 other games they played.

 

[UConnDan97]

This thread has gone from the midly interesting to the patently ridiculous, so I'll just remove myself from this equation.

I'm stating that they are similar quality leagues. Others are stating they are not. Who cares anymore if Temple is as good as GTown, or if Memphis is as good as St. John's. We are where we are, and that's that. Let's just win...

 

[UConnDan97]

LOL sure. Ignore the hundreds of games the teams have played and look at 8 random matchups to say you can't reach a conclusion.

I guess the computers were wrong that Louisville was better than UConn in football this year. The one game sample was a UConn win - ignore the 23 other games they played.

That is a team to team comparison, not a league to league comparison. So yes, you can look at leagues in terms of head-to-head matchups, especially when there are already 8 crossover games halfway through the year and many more to come on the schedule, considering that UConn, Cincy, and USF will continue to play against C7 teams, as well as Temple and Memphis playing against the A-10 portion of the C7. But I'm no longer going to waste my time explaining that to you. Enjoy the rest of the thread...

 

[whaler11]

Read the scorecard. No glasses necessary. Just get up close to the screen. That's the difference between predictive models and actual results. Vegas never lost a game that was already played...

There is no way that you are too stupid to not realize the Pomeroys are based on the game results right? The fact it works as well as it does as a predictive tool merely reinforces it's a better tool than ol' Dan pulling an 8 game sample of random matchups.

I can not for a single second believe you are stupid enough to make this argument.

 

[whaler11]

This thread has gone from the midly interesting to the patently ridiculous, so I'll just remove myself from this equation.

I'm stating that they are similar quality leagues. Others are stating they are not. Who cares anymore if Temple is as good as GTown, or if Memphis is as good as St. John's. We are where we are, and that's that. Let's just win...

The funny thing is that you don't realize your lunacy was the cause.

 

[UConnDan97]

The funny thing is that you don't realize your lunacy was the cause.

5 to 3. Enjoy...

 

[whaler11]

5 to 3. Enjoy...

Sorry buddy. Your argument is painfully stupid, I truly hope you are playing games by continuing to post that an 8 game sample carries any weight, nevermind more than the hundreds of games played by these schools this year (or any of the past few years which show the same results).

This is an embarrassing low for even the Boneyard CR board. Logic and reason left the building a long time ago; but this is bad. I thought you were kidding earlier in the thread when you mentioned someone had a win against TCU. You really thought that was something that mattered. I'm sorry.

 

[freescooter]

Here's the thing...the real power in the Big East long ago passed to the football schools. Georgetown, occasionally Marquette, occasionally Villanova compete, but the rest of them aren't even close. The C7 are pretty much the middle to bottom of the current Big East. they will add a couple of pretty good teams if they land Xavier and Butler but those aren't really elite teams, and at the end of the day they will be a 4 team league as will the New Big East. The top end of the New big East will likely be superior, mostly due to UConn, assuming UConn continues at a high level, and that is not a given, and the lower level teams in the NBE are probably as a group worse than the C-7, but not by much. Likely you will see the RPI of both groups fall precipitously next year since they won't be playing Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt, UConn, and Cincy, not will UConn be playing th efirst 3 plus G'town and Marquette. I think you are now arguing about which league will be the 5th best and which the 6th best rather than which will be #2 and which #3. In a sense it hardly matters. Both will be significantly worse than the current league.

 

[RS9999X]

Here's the thing...the real power in the Big East long ago passed to the football schools. .

It passed to only some of the football schools: USF and Rutgers were passed over

Competing is different than Conference strength. when you consider NIT appearances there's nothing like adding Tulane and SMU (both got the death penalty), UCF or ECU. They have nothing for a basketball tradition. Nothing. Depaul has a better history than the 4 combined!

Houston and Tulsa have some more recent basketball history in the same sense Depaul had a tremendous program from 1990-2007 where they made the post season (NCAA or NIT) 11 times. These two might hang as alower middle of the pack bubble C7 team in a good year --and end up in the NIT. Memphis OK. Decent enough basketball if the administrations make the right coaching moves. And Houston's 341 SOS is something unbelievable

I'll take the C-7 over the CUSA-7 anyday of the week. Even if we compare the weakest 4 (ECU, SMU, UCF, and Tulane) against (Depaul, PC, Seton Hall and St John's) I'd take regional rivalryof the C7 and the history of those 4 programs any day of the week.

 

[freescooter]

RS999X
You are arguing about the bottom of the pile. Who cares? Depaul, Providence St Johns, Seton Hall...they all stink, SMU, Housotn, ECU, they all stink. If you're saying we should stay with them because of tradition, I'm not sure that's a good reason. Both leagues are going to be significant downgrades form what we're used to. But we need to not worry about basketball. For good or ill our future will revolve around the success or lack of success of the UConn football program. so we go where we need to to play football.

 

[metsfan2323]

Depaul had a tremendous program from 1990-2007

Nope, you're off by about two decades and BTW:

DePaul NCAA appearances in 1986, 87, 88, and 89 were vacated due to NCAA rules infractions and are not a part of the official NCAA records

 

[DW4UCONN]

The C7 will continue to be rich in tradition, add three or five more solid BB programs, have more revenue than they currently have coming in, retain the NYC market with SH and STJ, reach households in very advantageous areas for a BB conference, and have a tournament in NYC. The only thing left for them to work out is getting the BE name. I don't think top to bottom comparisons matter much. The C7 are going to be a terrific BB conference and will do it just fine without Uconn. The NBE BB conference doesn't add any of that for Uconn. The NBE offers CUSA match ups that are uninspiring (fact not whining). Uconn football however IS best served at this time in the NBE. Uconn deserves the best of both worlds until a better situation comes along, which hopefully will be soon.

 

[freescooter]

The C7 will continue to be rich in tradition, add three or five more solid BB programs, have more revenue than they currently have coming in, retain the NYC market with SH and STJ, reach households in very advantageous areas for a BB conference, and have a tournament in NYC. The only thing left for them to work out is getting the BE name. I don't think top to bottom comparisons matter much. The C7 are going to be a terrific BB conference and will do it just fine without Uconn. The NBE BB conference doesn't add any of that for Uconn. The NBE offers CUSA match ups that are uninspiring (fact not whining). Uconn football however IS best served at this time in the NBE. Uconn deserves the best of both worlds until a better situation comes along, which hopefully will be soon.

It is not going to be a terrific basketball conference. it is going to be the A-10. It just is. No basketball only conference has managed to be "terrific." It can't. It can have a few very good teams, but the Providences and Seton Halls and St Johnses of the world simply lack the infrastructure and the financial capabilities to truly compete at a national level against leagues like the ACC, SEC, Big 10 and so forth. It just doesn't work. Of the C-7 maybe 2 can manage it, and it takes a significant and concentrated effort. Georgetown is a very different place than the others so they can more or less compete on a regular basis. Marquette, Xavier, and those other Jesuit schools can sort of hang around the edges. But the rest simply don't have any chance to do it on any kind of consistent basis. Their goal is to be respectable, nothing more.

 

[upstater]

The C7 will continue to be rich in tradition, add three or five more solid BB programs, have more revenue than they currently have coming in, retain the NYC market with SH and STJ, reach households in very advantageous areas for a BB conference, and have a tournament in NYC. The only thing left for them to work out is getting the BE name. I don't think top to bottom comparisons matter much. The C7 are going to be a terrific BB conference and will do it just fine without Uconn. The NBE BB conference doesn't add any of that for Uconn. The NBE offers CUSA match ups that are uninspiring (fact not whining). Uconn football however IS best served at this time in the NBE. Uconn deserves the best of both worlds until a better situation comes along, which hopefully will be soon.

The NY city market loves to watch Seton Hall and St. John's basketball!!

The things I learn on the Boneyard.

 

[DW4UCONN]

The NY city market loves to watch Seton Hall and St. John's basketball!!

The things I learn on the Boneyard.

$4-5 million per school if true means somebody thinks so.

 

[upstater]

$4-5 million per school if true means somebody thinks so.

Wha? That has little if anything to do with the NY market. Where do you get this stuff?

 

[Danzz]

Everybody relax, whether we like it or not Uconn will end up in what is left of the ACC after the dust settles.

 

[DW4UCONN]

Wha? That has little if anything to do with the NY market. Where do you get this stuff?

The NY market has to be part of the equation. Reaching urban households has to be the major attraction for this league. No?

 

[DW4UCONN]

Everybody relax, whether we like it or not Uconn will end up in what is left of the ACC after the dust settles.

We already established this thread is a waste of time, but we do it anyway

 

[metsfan2323]

Everybody relax, whether we like it or not Uconn will end up in what is left of the ACC after the dust settles.

I agree, time will prove that all of these debates were wasted energy.

 

[Durks07]

The C7 will continue to be rich in tradition, add three or five more solid BB programs, have more revenue than they currently have coming in, retain the NYC market with SH and STJ, reach households in very advantageous areas for a BB conference, and have a tournament in NYC. The only thing left for them to work out is getting the BE name. I don't think top to bottom comparisons matter much. The C7 are going to be a terrific BB conference and will do it just fine without Uconn. The NBE BB conference doesn't add any of that for Uconn. The NBE offers CUSA match ups that are uninspiring (fact not whining). Uconn football however IS best served at this time in the NBE. Uconn deserves the best of both worlds until a better situation comes along, which hopefully will be soon.

Rich in tradition? Aside from G'Town, Marq, and Nova, the league is more like a natural history museum exhibit.

"See kids, these schools are called Providence, Seton Hall, Depaul, and St. John's. There was once a time, wayyyyy before you were born, when they were relevant in some way and in something. It might have been basketball, but I don't remember. It was a few decades before my time as well."

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

As opposed to ECU, USF, UCF, Tulane, Tulsa, and SMU who have never scratched the history books in any way, and Memphis and Houston who had as many days in the sun as Seton Hall, PC, and SJU?