Big 12 Non-Expansion: What Does It Mean to the AAC and UConn?

[BUConn10]

The AAC would easily tell us to pound sand if we removed basketball. What value does UConn football bring alone?

Brand and a name that people actually recognize in a region of the country with an incredibly densely populated and untapped market would be my only guess.

 

[SubbaBub]

It gives the AAC a punchers chance at clawing close to even on the field with the B12.

It will never match the money or access as long as the B12 is in its current form. But, on the field the middles could be quite competitive if these teams keep improving.

 

[upstater]

I suggest people start rooting for Notre Dame football to start losing so badly year after year for the next 3 that it starts losing fans, ratings die on NBC, the money dries up, and suddenly the ACC's cool $30m+ looks great by comparison.

Then we prepare for nutkick #4 as UConn competes with god-knows-who for the ACC's 16th spot.

 

[shizzle787]

I suggest people start rooting for Notre Dame football to start losing so badly year after year for the next 3 that it starts losing fans, ratings die on NBC, the money dries up, and suddenly the ACC's cool $30m+ looks great by comparison.

Then we prepare for nutkick #4 as UConn competes with god-knows-who for the ACC's 16th spot.

Or we just wait for the year ND goes 11-1, Ohio State goes 12-1, Texas goes 12-1, Clemson goes 13-0, and Alabama goes 12-1, and ND gets left out.

 

[upstater]

Or we just wait for the year ND goes 11-1, Ohio State goes 12-1, Texas goes 12-1, Clemson goes 13-0, and Alabama goes 12-1, and ND gets left out.

If ND can compete, I believe it stays Independent. ND will only panic if it drops $20m below what its peers are making.

 

[Towney007]

Yeah I mean at this point, the AAC I feel needs to go full blow 'island of misfit toys' and expand. For a lot of these schools - being with us is being better than where they're at now. BYU, UNLV, VCU, Gonzaga, San Diego State, Boise State, Colorado State, Air Force, Army... all that . Let's just got get 'em.

 

[junglehusky]

I suggest people start rooting for Notre Dame football to start losing so badly year after year for the next 3 that it starts losing fans, ratings die on NBC, the money dries up, and suddenly the ACC's cool $30m+ looks great by comparison.

Then we prepare for nutkick #4 as UConn competes with god-knows-who for the ACC's 16th spot.

We are already on #nutkick # 4 or 5.

Nutkick #1 - ACC trying to poach Miami/BC/Cuse
Nutkick # 1.5 - VT over Cuse after Gov. McDonnel (I think) intervenes
Nutkick #2 - Pitt/Cuse to the ACC
Nutkick #2.5 WVU #Begs ACC, #BegHarder to Big12, Rutgers to Big10
Nutkick #3 - Catholic7
Nutkick #4 - The Legend of Tom Jurich #pinacoladas #donuts
Nutkick # 5 - The Big 12 will expand! Wait, no they're not! Wait, yes they are! Wait, maybe they won't, but the might! Yes! No!

Actually, it doesn't really matter how many, after 2 #nutkicks they all blur together.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

Or we just wait for the year ND goes 11-1, Ohio State goes 12-1, Texas goes 12-1, Clemson goes 13-0, and Alabama goes 12-1, and ND gets left out.

Or USC or Oregon go 12-0 and Texas get left out too.

 

[Alum86]

Please stop. Please. No one knows that Weist has what it takes to be a head coach at a big time program. If anyone (but you) did, he'd have been offered a job after leaving us. What does the fact that he wasn't tell you? And I'm not saying he wouldn't be by the way -- just pointing out that this oversimplified pretense that we had the answer and let him go is just that

No, you stop. Diaco is PP Light.
We had more juice in TJs limited stint then RedPants' 3 years of playing not to lose

 

[junglehusky]

No, you stop. Diaco is PP Light.
We had more juice in TJs limited stint then RedPants' 3 years of playing not to lose

He was 3-5.

 

[Stainmaster]

He was 3-5.

Let's not forget those three came against the dregs of the schedule too, and Temple was a pick-6 away from not panning out.

 

[Confident Carl]

So I'm hardly rah rah AAC. I mean, I would gladly seal the bulkhead and watch those schools drown. But I have to think that shutting down the expansion will give the conference some needed stability.

-Basketball in this conference is still atrocious, and it's hard to see that changing much.

-Football arguably is better than in it ever was in the New Big East (NBE). That alone should be enough to get the TV payout higher but probably not high enough.

-With Big 12 expansion shut down should the AAC actually seize some initiative and raid the best two schools from the MWC?

-If the AAC doesn't get serious about improving basketball and improving the members then UConn should give consideration to leaving.

-The AAC is not powerful enough to tell us to go pound sand if we removed basketball. We could probably get Cincy to go with us just to hold the conference hostage.

As for UConn it is time to stop fooling around with the football program. Diaco needs to feel some heat, and the admin needs to step up and find him some more money to hire some decent assistants.

I'm in the military, I used to plan R&R during combat deployments to see two home games. When I was in Germany for three years, ditto. Not too many other people have flown across the Atlantic as much as I have to watch home games.

I regularly choose not to watch games now, because it's no longer fun to watch. The program is pretty close to losing me and I'm hardly alone.

-Hire an OC or someone capable of scouting and recruiting a few good quarterbacks and start playing attractive football. If this program ever developed some sex appeal it would be SO FRICKING EASY to dominate New England and the Region even with Syracuse and BC being P5. They've been around forever and haven't figured it out, that won't change anytime soon.

-Restructure ticket pricing, make the best seats affordable to the most loyal fans. I'm sick of seeing the best seats empty. And while it's stupid to bitch about attendance, it's still terrible optics.

-This is an opportunity. Last time we were rejected football sucked, this time they raider opted to take an appetite suppressant and we dodged a bullet. And by the way FOOTBALL STILL SUCKS and there is very little reassurance that it will get any better.

-Bottom line, fix football and keep it fixed and we will make it back.

I feel you pain brother. Football has sucked for two long. Diaco and Staff have made some questionable calls but having said that, we are seeing improvement. In my opinion UCONN must finish 7-5 and go to a bowl this year. Otherwise all bets are off and Diaco will have to be concerned next year. The program just can't tolerate anymore crappy seasons.

I decided to comment on your points. I appreciate your service to our country and since you gave us your time, I decided to pay close attention to your thoughts and emotions.

-Basketball in this conference is still atrocious, and it's hard to see that changing much.

Big East is a better basketball conference but atrocious for the AAC is a bit too harsh. Seven of the American's 11 teams (UCONN, Cincy, Houston, Memphis, Temple, SMU and Tulsa) have some tradition in basketball. The Big East teams consisting of Butler, Creighton, Depaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Villanova and Xavier are sexier seasoned teams. USF and UCF are relatively new to big time Basketball. ECU being in North Carolina has never been a power but I can see them improving. The American has some really good coaches too. Although the Big East is better it is somewhat comforting to see that the NCAA tournament numbers are not that far apart. Obviously UCONN impacts the American's numbers considerably but non the less the comparison leaves some room for optimism.

AMERICAN............... BIG.........EAST
NCAA CHAMPS ............6 ............4
NCAA RUNNER UP..... 5............ 9
NCAA FINAL 4............ 22.......... 22
NCAA ELITE 8............. 41.......... 49
NCAA SWEET 16.......... 69.......... 87
NCAA APPEARANCES 175.........228

-Football arguably is better than in it ever was in the New Big East (NBE). That alone should be enough to get the TV payout higher but probably not high enough.

I am in agreement here. Hoping Mike Aresco's experience in TV will help land a solid TV contract.

-With Big 12 expansion shut down should the AAC actually seize some initiative and raid the best two schools from the MWC?

I hear you but didn't we try that already with Boise State and San Diego State. They would only come if Aresco negotiates a better TV contract and if so, I doubt if the networks would want to pay out more dough similar to the recent Big 8 decision not to expand.

-If the AAC doesn't get serious about improving basketball and improving the members then UConn should give consideration to leaving.

Again I refer you to the numbers above. The American has some tradition but also some emerging teams. No reason why USF, UCF and ECU can't make strides in basketball. I have heard of adding Wichita State, and VCU for example. Not a bad idea but we had that in the Big East and having bball only teams caused problems. Also you may have to split revenue with more teams. Having said that fans would certainly come out to see Wichita State and VCU. If attendance sours they may have to do something dramatic like that.

-The AAC is not powerful enough to tell us to go pound sand if we removed basketball. We could probably get Cincy to go with us just to hold the conference hostage.

Doesn't make sense to leave the American. The American didn't hurt the girls, they still won three championships and the men won one. Basketball is still a big revenue earner for UCONN. The key is scheduling top notch high profile non conference games. I do agree that UCONN fans are not going
to get excited about, Tulane and ECU but then again, Nova and Georgetown are more exciting than Depau and Seton Hall. You are correct the American has to get better overall in basketball or UCONN's attendance numbers will suffer.

As for UConn it is time to stop fooling around with the football program. Diaco needs to feel some heat, and the admin needs to step up and find him some more money to hire some decent assistants.

If Diaco finishes 7-5 or better yet 8-4, Diaco is not going anywhere. He is building a program and Benedict just gave him a raise. If you want to kill the momentum fire these coaches but they are a tight knit group and it's not all on the coaches. The players make the plays.

I'm in the military, I used to plan R&R during combat deployments to see two home games. When I was in Germany for three years, ditto. Not too many other people have flown across the Atlantic as much as I have to watch home games.

Thanks for your service to our country it is much appreciated!

I regularly choose not to watch games now, because it's no longer fun to watch. The program is pretty close to losing me and I'm hardly alone.

I agree watching these games has been brutal and heartbreaking. However I see the program getting better. Diaco is too enamored with Bryant Sheriffs, however I believe he will get competition from Donovan Williams next spring. Diaco must have had to Redshirt him this year. I am sure he learned a great deal under Sheriffs.

-Hire an OC or someone capable of scouting and recruiting a few good quarterbacks and start playing attractive football. If this program ever developed some sex appeal it would be SO FRICKING EASY to dominate New England and the Region even with Syracuse and BC being P5. They've been around forever and haven't figured it out, that won't change anytime soon.

Perhaps a new OC will help although FV has opened up things lately. I would like to see us dominate the North East. I want to believe that BD and staff are working towards that. I am going to wait out the season. If we improve and go to a bowl, I will be satisfied but 2017 is a year when we are going to have to dominate. I would like to see us win the last 5 games in a row like USF did and then go on a tear next year.

-Restructure ticket pricing, make the best seats affordable to the most loyal fans. I'm sick of seeing the best seats empty. And while it's stupid to bitch about attendance, it's still terrible optics.

I have to admit that I have given some thought to giving up my blue chair backs and heavy seat donation but I do it partly to contribute to the University, plus I hold out hope that one day we will put it all together.

-This is an opportunity. Last time we were rejected football sucked, this time they raider opted to take an appetite suppressant and we dodged a bullet. And by the way FOOTBALL STILL SUCKS and there is very little reassurance that it will get any better.

-Bottom line, fix football and keep it fixed and we will make it back.

I couldn't agree with you more!

 

[Confident Carl]

You mean the 4-2 Tulsa football team that lost a close game to Houston? That kind of nothing? Tulsa is competitive in both major sports and has strong academics. Tulane is a world class university. It's Memphis I'd kick out if anyone and ECU.

You can't be serious about kicking out ECU and Memphis from the AAC. Both are the attendance leaders in football and basketball respectively in the AAC. ECU averages almost 50K per game and regularly beats NC, NCS, & VA Tech in football. Memphis one of the best basketball teams in the AAC has been a top 25 leader in basketball attendance nationally(attendance has dipped due to performance recently) as well as a having vastly improved football team backed by Fed Ex corporate dollars.
Your post needs to be rethunk!

 

[HuskyHawk]

You can't be serious about kicking out ECU and Memphis from the AAC. Both are the attendance leaders in football and basketball respectively in the AAC. ECU averages almost 50K per game and regularly beats NC, NCS, & VA Tech in football. Memphis one of the best basketball teams in the AAC has been a top 25 leader in basketball attendance nationally(attendance has dipped due to performance recently) as well as a having vastly improved football team backed by Fed Ex corporate dollars.
Your post needs to be rethunk!

I don't want to kick anyone out. But I'd rather UConn associate with Tulane and Tulsa than with those two universities who can't even garner a USNWR ranking. Long term, it's about associations, and UConn needs to associate with peer institutions. Tulane and Cincinnati are the closest ones we have in this conference.

 

[Confident Carl]

I don't want to kick anyone out. But I'd rather UConn associate with Tulane and Tulsa than with those two universities who can't even garner a USNWR ranking. Long term, it's about associations, and UConn needs to associate with peer institutions. Tulane and Cincinnati are the closest ones we have in this conference.

Yeah, I know but the start up AMERICAN cobbled together the best teams they could and that is why the AAC is considered the best of the P5 or as Aresco says, a Power 6 league. ECU is part of the University of NC. I agree there is no comparison with UCONN academically and that's why we are a better fit for the B1G or the ACC.

 

[HuskyinWRNY]

Yeah I mean at this point, the AAC I feel needs to go full blow 'island of misfit toys' and expand. For a lot of these schools - being with us is being better than where they're at now. BYU, UNLV, VCU, Gonzaga, San Diego State, Boise State, Colorado State, Air Force, Army... all that . Let's just got get 'em.

I agree. Let's join with the best of the rest and get out of the C-USA mold.

 

[SubbaBub]

Status in FB comes from winning. So the answer is obvious. The AAC need to start a conference sanctioned underground pay for play program. If we want the attention of the P5 we need to start cheating like the P5.

The conference money isn't much, but it's enough to land a few 5 star recruits.

 

[amory]

If basketball is so atrocious in the AAC, I would hope UConn would've won a regular season title by now. And as far as football goes, we're where we belong. At least for now.

The old Big East it ain't. But it also isn't the worst league in the world. It's important that SMU not tank back to where they were before Larry Brown arrived.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

There are two reasons to merge with the MWC:

1) Market power - the two best non-P5 leagues negotiating as a block.
2) More and better content
3) #2 enables the conference to sell a conference TV contract while still leaving a ton of Tier 3 content.

Moving teams around in the traditional CR fight is just moving deck chairs on the Titanic. The league needs a strategy to drive more revenue, or it is over.

 

[ZooCougar]

Please stop. Please. No one knows that Weist has what it takes to be a head coach at a big time program. If anyone (but you) did, he'd have been offered a job after leaving us. What does the fact that he wasn't tell you? And I'm not saying he wouldn't be by the way -- just pointing out that this oversimplified pretense that we had the answer and let him go is just that

No. Just look at the results at USF. There is far more evidence that I am right.

 

[BlueandOG]

I feel you pain brother. Football has sucked for two long. Diaco and Staff have made some questionable calls but having said that, we are seeing improvement. In my opinion UCONN must finish 7-5 and go to a bowl this year. Otherwise all bets are off and Diaco will have to be concerned next year. The program just can't tolerate anymore crappy seasons.

I decided to comment on your points. I appreciate your service to our country and since you gave us your time, I decided to pay close attention to your thoughts and emotions.

-Basketball in this conference is still atrocious, and it's hard to see that changing much.

Big East is a better basketball conference but atrocious for the AAC is a bit too harsh. Seven of the American's 11 teams (UCONN, Cincy, Houston, Memphis, Temple, SMU and Tulsa) have some tradition in basketball. The Big East teams consisting of Butler, Creighton, Depaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Villanova and Xavier are sexier seasoned teams. USF and UCF are relatively new to big time Basketball. ECU being in North Carolina has never been a power but I can see them improving. The American has some really good coaches too. Although the Big East is better it is somewhat comforting to see that the NCAA tournament numbers are not that far apart. Obviously UCONN impacts the American's numbers considerably but non the less the comparison leaves some room for optimism.

AMERICAN..... BIG....EAST
NCAA CHAMPS ..6 ..4
NCAA RUNNER UP..... 5.. 9
NCAA FINAL 4.. 22..... 22
NCAA ELITE 8... 41..... 49
NCAA SWEET 16..... 69..... 87
NCAA APPEARANCES 175....228

-Football arguably is better than in it ever was in the New Big East (NBE). That alone should be enough to get the TV payout higher but probably not high enough.

I am in agreement here. Hoping Mike Aresco's experience in TV will help land a solid TV contract.

-With Big 12 expansion shut down should the AAC actually seize some initiative and raid the best two schools from the MWC?

I hear you but didn't we try that already with Boise State and San Diego State. They would only come if Aresco negotiates a better TV contract and if so, I doubt if the networks would want to pay out more dough similar to the recent Big 8 decision not to expand.

-If the AAC doesn't get serious about improving basketball and improving the members then UConn should give consideration to leaving.

Again I refer you to the numbers above. The American has some tradition but also some emerging teams. No reason why USF, UCF and ECU can't make strides in basketball. I have heard of adding Wichita State, and VCU for example. Not a bad idea but we had that in the Big East and having bball only teams caused problems. Also you may have to split revenue with more teams. Having said that fans would certainly come out to see Wichita State and VCU. If attendance sours they may have to do something dramatic like that.

-The AAC is not powerful enough to tell us to go pound sand if we removed basketball. We could probably get Cincy to go with us just to hold the conference hostage.

Doesn't make sense to leave the American. The American didn't hurt the girls, they still won three championships and the men won one. Basketball is still a big revenue earner for UCONN. The key is scheduling top notch high profile non conference games. I do agree that UCONN fans are not going
to get excited about, Tulane and ECU but then again, Nova and Georgetown are more exciting than Depau and Seton Hall. You are correct the American has to get better overall in basketball or UCONN's attendance numbers will suffer.

As for UConn it is time to stop fooling around with the football program. Diaco needs to feel some heat, and the admin needs to step up and find him some more money to hire some decent assistants.

If Diaco finishes 7-5 or better yet 8-4, Diaco is not going anywhere. He is building a program and Benedict just gave him a raise. If you want to kill the momentum fire these coaches but they are a tight knit group and it's not all on the coaches. The players make the plays.

I'm in the military, I used to plan R&R during combat deployments to see two home games. When I was in Germany for three years, ditto. Not too many other people have flown across the Atlantic as much as I have to watch home games.

Thanks for your service to our country it is much appreciated!

I regularly choose not to watch games now, because it's no longer fun to watch. The program is pretty close to losing me and I'm hardly alone.

I agree watching these games has been brutal and heartbreaking. However I see the program getting better. Diaco is too enamored with Bryant Sheriffs, however I believe he will get competition from Donovan Williams next spring. Diaco must have had to Redshirt him this year. I am sure he learned a great deal under Sheriffs.

-Hire an OC or someone capable of scouting and recruiting a few good quarterbacks and start playing attractive football. If this program ever developed some sex appeal it would be SO FRICKING EASY to dominate New England and the Region even with Syracuse and BC being P5. They've been around forever and haven't figured it out, that won't change anytime soon.

Perhaps a new OC will help although FV has opened up things lately. I would like to see us dominate the North East. I want to believe that BD and staff are working towards that. I am going to wait out the season. If we improve and go to a bowl, I will be satisfied but 2017 is a year when we are going to have to dominate. I would like to see us win the last 5 games in a row like USF did and then go on a tear next year.

-Restructure ticket pricing, make the best seats affordable to the most loyal fans. I'm sick of seeing the best seats empty. And while it's stupid to bitch about attendance, it's still terrible optics.

I have to admit that I have given some thought to giving up my blue chair backs and heavy seat donation but I do it partly to contribute to the University, plus I hold out hope that one day we will put it all together.

-This is an opportunity. Last time we were rejected football sucked, this time they raider opted to take an appetite suppressant and we dodged a bullet. And by the way FOOTBALL STILL SUCKS and there is very little reassurance that it will get any better.

-Bottom line, fix football and keep it fixed and we will make it back.

I couldn't agree with you more!

Carl, if your blue chair back is near section 200 (where my two reside), wear something that says, "I'm Confident Carl!" to the next FB game so I can spot you and buy you a beer. Perfect response - couldn't agree more with every point.

 

[frankthetank]

Tulane brings location and education. You got me on Tulsa.

Tulsa is the only AAC member in the top 100 of the US News undergrad rankings besides UConn, Tulane and SMU. They're actually a very good academic school.

As for location, the state of Oklahoma has over 300,000 more people than the state of Connecticut and growing at a much faster rate. More importantly, Oklahoma has one of the best per capita FBS recruit production rates of any state in the country. The state of Oklahoma produces almost twice as many FBS recruits annually than the entire state of New York *outright* (despite having less than 1/5th of the population of New York) and nearly the same amount of FBS recruits as the legitimately high school football-crazy state of Tennessee (despite having only 2/3rds of the population of Tennessee). Maybe it's the Northeastern bias here, but the perception of Oklahoma being a small low population state is completely incorrect. It's a fast growing state that is already larger than Connecticut and produces FBS football talent at an extraordinarily high rate. Whether Tulsa delivers that market from a TV perspective is debatable, but the location in and of itself brings a ton of value to a conference from a football recruiting perspective.

Let's put it this way: there are LOT of G5 schools that are worth a whole lot less than Tulsa. On the metrics that university presidents purport to care about such as academics and demographics, Tulsa is actually near the top among G5 schools.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

There are two reasons to merge with the MWC:

1) Market power - the two best non-P5 leagues negotiating as a block.
2) More and better content
3) #2 enables the conference to sell a conference TV contract while still leaving a ton of Tier 3 content.

Moving teams around in the traditional CR fight is just moving deck chairs on the Titanic. The league needs a strategy to drive more revenue, or it is over.

Interesting that merging with a league that makes less than we currently do would somehow increase our value. Seems like it would only devalue what we have.

More content? Sure. Better content? Aside from Boise State football who is it that is driving this content?

The AAC and MW in their current forms (without kicking members out) are in their best possible forms given the circumstances.

Doing something, just for the sake of it isn't always the best idea. You guys want to be in a league where we are flying to San Jose or Wyoming for games?

Are you out of your mind?

 

[Huskyforlife]

Tulsa is the only AAC member in the top 100 of the US News undergrad rankings besides UConn, Tulane and SMU. They're actually a very good academic school.

As for location, the state of Oklahoma has over 300,000 more people than the state of Connecticut and growing at a much faster rate. More importantly, Oklahoma has one of the best per capita FBS recruit production rates of any state in the country. The state of Oklahoma produces almost twice as many FBS recruits annually than the entire state of New York *outright* (despite having less than 1/5th of the population of New York) and nearly the same amount of FBS recruits as the legitimately high school football-crazy state of Tennessee (despite having only 2/3rds of the population of Tennessee). Maybe it's the Northeastern bias here, but the perception of Oklahoma being a small low population state is completely incorrect. It's a fast growing state that is already larger than Connecticut and produces FBS football talent at an extraordinarily high rate. Whether Tulsa delivers that market from a TV perspective is debatable, but the location in and of itself brings a ton of value to a conference from a football recruiting perspective.

Let's put it this way: there are LOT of G5 schools that are worth a whole lot less than Tulsa. On the metrics that university presidents purport to care about such as academics and demographics, Tulsa is actually near the top among G5 schools.

Because the B12 really needs help recruiting in Oklahoma. Maybe if anyone actually cared there was a Tulsa football game being played on Saturday, they'd have value, but that isn't the case. Sometimes we look too far into which markets each school plays in, and forget that nobody in any market could care less about that team.

 

[junglehusky]

Would like to hear @frankthetank thoughts on AAC/MWC merger or partial merger with the goal of being a Power 6 conference (and getting paid like it). My guess is nobody in old media or new is willing to pony up.